Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
March 28, 2024, 02:55:35 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Hello and Thank You  (Read 4598 times)
Alexa Daley
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3



« on: March 07, 2018, 02:32:29 pm »

Hey everyone! I'm Alexa, former GCx-er and finally ready to take the plunge into this forum. Although this is only the first day I've posted here, I've been a frequent visitor since I first found this forum a few years ago. And given all the recent debates about whether GCx concerns are "still valid" since they're considered too old, I thought I could shed some light on some current problems by sharing a bit of my story.

I got recruited into the Edge campus ministry at UW-Eau Claire and started attending CedarCreek Community Church (anyone who's heard Rob Gerber at Faithwalkers Midwest - that's his home base). My first year was an absolute dream. CedarCreek and the Edge were everything that I had ever dreamed about. They were passionate, community-focused, and seemed to really see and care about who I was as a person. I felt encouraged and pushed in ways I never had. I met some very close friends and had a mentor I adored. That first year I can still look back on with a smile.

But the longer I was in, the more I began to see problems. I started seeing how little of a voice I had as a woman, like my opinion never really mattered, how sitting down and shutting up was the most admirable thing I could do. As I started getting more involved, and as school was starting to get more difficult, I started feeling exhausted. But instead of telling me it was okay to rest, okay to step back, I was told I should be exhausted most of the time, that I wasn't doing enough for God if I wasn't. At Faithwalkers in 2013, there was a sermon preached that told us if we were tired, it was because we didn't have enough faith. No one seemed to believe me when I talked about getting really sick when I got too tired (which I still do, to this day). They just compared us to other people who always "pushed through their exhaustion." Comparisons to the "super Christian" students happened often and made the rest of us feel like we were continually falling short of God's expectations.

And that, to be honest, only scratches the surface. That was what made me take a step back and begin to examine what I had been a part of for four years. I never thought I would witness an excommunication, but I was there when the pastor of Coulee Rock was excommunicated back in 2014. And I had friends present when one of the CedarCreek pastors was excommunicated in 2016. The meetings that Suzanne has mentioned, where they talk about "what really happened" with the excommunicated? The cutting people off, telling people not to talk to them, and implying that sides should be taken? Oh yes, it still continues to happen.

But getting back to my experience, when things got really bad, where my friends and I were so overwhelmed with all the negative things we were seeing, we tried to talk to Rob, who was head of the Edge as well as CedarCreek by that point. We went into it completely hopeful but each concern was systematically destroyed. We were wrong, he said. There weren't problems (except for transparency, which he said would be addressed but never was). And the real kicker, that since Rob was in charge, he got to have the final say. In everything. Though he said he didn't like using the word, he did describe himself as the "dictator" of the Edge when we questioned his ability to not let us control any aspect, even though it was supposed to be a student run organization (except it actually wasn't; CedarCreek views the Edge as a college "church plant" which is why the students get no control. This, however, was the first we knew of it - they never told the students they were in a church plant). We had a couple more meetings with the higher-up students (a few of whom had graduated) and all of our concerns about burnout, about control, about the Edge's purpose and direction, were brushed aside. In the end, we were a bunch of burned-out "less spiritual" students that Satan was using to try and destroy the group's unity.

And after that, I left. I'm still in touch with a few people but it seems like both sides know talking about church is a fruitless endeavor - it's the one topic that's never come up. A few people look at me like I have twelve heads and just straight-up don't talk to me. When I returned to the Edge after a few weeks of absence (this was as I was deciding to leave, so I still had been regularly involved), no one, and I mean literally NO ONE talked to me. No one asked where I'd been, how I'd been doing. It was clear that my usefulness was outlived and I no longer had a purpose. You never would've guessed a month before I'd been meeting with others to try to work through some of the issues.

Finding this forum was like a breath of fresh air. All of us felt so crazy, thinking we were ignoring God, that we weren't doing enough, that Rob and the elders were right. And being able to come here and read about the issues people have seen has been so comforting (and sad). Finding experiences from years before that were practically identical to mine. And seeing how people were using their experience to help others. This place has truly been a comfort to me over these last few years. And I want to say thank you. To Linda, Agatha, Huldah, Janet, Rebel, and others who have been a consistent voice of reason and helped me to feel like I wasn't crazy and I wasn't alone. Thank you all of you for that.

And finally (I know I'm getting a little long-winded), to those who doubt that GCx is still abusing its power: I promise you. It still happens. If you're a current GCx-er, it probably seems unfair or hurtful to hear. I wouldn't have believed a word had I found this forum in my first few years. And my heart longs to believe that there are good GCx churches out there and good leaders who truly care about their congregation and want to be good stewards of their position. But the abuses, the ones that have been listed here time and time and time again for the past however many years, STILL HAPPEN. I witnessed excommunications. I witnessed friends who had left receiving horrible emails talking about how divisive they had been when they were at the church. I witnessed emails from Rob twisting things that had happened in order to make CedarCreek look like the "good guys." I witnessed meetings about the excommunicated, being told I couldn't have a say because I was a woman, being told I needed to be doing more when I was already at the brink of exhaustion. I saw the open distrust of people from other denominations. I saw leadership trying to involve themselves and even control personal aspects of peoples' lives that they never had the right to even know about. And I ESPECIALLY saw the shutting down of anyone who tried to question the leadership (yes, we had MANY sermons on submission to leaders, even if they were doing the wrong thing). Anyone who questions is immediately flagged as a person of concern. I left in 2015. I had friends leave as recent as this last fall. It still happens.

I don't know how much of a poster I'll be on here, but I at least wanted to share all that. Thank for hearing me out, everyone!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 03:06:01 pm by Alexa Daley » Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2520



« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 03:12:46 pm »

Welcome, Alexa Daley. I'm glad you're here.

Thanks for telling your story. It helps paint a clearer picture of current practice in GC churches.

I am so sorry for all you have been through.

I have been shocked in recent weeks to learn that excommunications are still happening. I had no idea.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I agree, it is comforting, and at the same time sad, to come here and realize that others have experienced the same things.

God bless you.
Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Huldah
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1062



« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 03:24:04 pm »

Welcome, Alexa!

I understand about being tired all the time. There was a song we used to sing at Solid Rock where one of the lines went, "Jesus, I just wanna burn out for You, red-hot."

I appreciate your kind words about this forum. It sort of brought tears to my eyes to know that the things written here have helped someone who was going through so many of the same things.

May you find peace as you come to terms with everything you've been through.
Logged
GodisFaithful
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 328



« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 03:43:42 pm »

I am so glad you came here Alexa, and that you posted.  Welcome! 

I hope you have read the 1991 Apology Paper.  These witch hunt excommunications were supposed to stop. 

Sounds like the pastors at Evergreen in the Twin Cities may have been a guilty part of the whole affair. It really makes me sick. 

Thank you for sharing what you did so candidly.  We know that you tried your  best to do the right thing in your situation.  I think what you shared is very helpful to some of us who have been gone for a while and wondering if GCC is doing better in their leadership.  I am so glad that you are out now and can start to discern the ways that the leaders have twisted Scripture to keep people "under" them.  It is not an exaggeration to say that your particular church is cultish.  It really creeps me out the way they mess with people and leave a trail of tears and damage.  I hate the way that you were thrown away like an old filthy rag when you were no longer useful to them.  The blessing in that is that you saw their hypocrisy and escaped.

Please do speak up!  I think you have a lot to contribute because of your recent experiences.

GodisFaithful  (He really truly is.)



Logged
AgathaL'Orange
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1182



« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 04:56:48 pm »

Welcome!  I’m so glad you’re here and free!  


I have to second the feelings of shock over modern day ex-communications.  I’m truly stunned that this is still going on after all the apologies, all the “we’ve changed,” all the testimonies, and all of the hurt people.


If you are in a church that has shunned or excommunicated someone for anything short of unrepentant criminal or sexual behavior or the like, then the cause of “right” is on you.  

Churches need sound doctrine (and reasons why this sound doctrine is the law of the land), educated leaders, remedy for poor leaders, quality trained theologians and counselors, principled leadership and rules, and of course all of the other things... background checks for leaders, counselors, and volunteers, good kids programs, sound financial status, accountability.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 04:21:16 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

Glad to be free.
Rebel in a Good Way
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 455



« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 06:36:55 pm »

Hi Alexa!  I want to start by saying that my anonymity on here is thinly veiled and you are welcome to message me if you want to know who I really am.  I've been posting on social media under my own name so I'm not trying to be super stealthy.  I half expect to be contacted by a Cedarcreek leader any day now.

Your story is sooo familiar, and I apologize that I was part of a team who started The Edge.  It was never supposed to be a Cedarcreek church plant.  Rob was in charge from the beginning, just so you know, although it took us several meetings to realize that, when we realized he would always have the final say but pretended he didn't.  I actually burnt out and checked out of ministry for awhile--I wasn't pressured to return because, as my username states, I was beginning to ask questions.  I felt such guilt about that for a long time, because our worth and value were determined by service.  I thought God must be disappointed in me and that I had become a "mediocre" Christian.  But I just couldn't do it anymore.

I want to clarify whether those people you mentioned were excommunicated officially, or just "run out?"  The excommunication I witnessed included official written church documents stating that the person was under church discipline.  This was part of what they wrote: "The [BBBB family] are clinging to unrepentant sin – the sin of lying and of slander.  God warns us not to associate with a brother who does this.  We believe that God knows what is best, for Cedarcreek, for each of us, and for [the BBBB family].  We have worked through the process Jesus laid out in Matthew 18, and now God asks us to cease associating with the [BBBB family]." 

None of their names start with B, just to be clear.  And notice their "unrepentant sin"--gossip and slander (because they told the truth about a pastor).

I know the former pastors of which you speak, and believe they were abused.  However, I am curious if they were officially disciplined in the above manner?  Or what was the process that made you use the word excommunication?  Maybe it's just semantics, but I know many have been "shunned" without having been officially disciplined.  Just curious.  I feel like Cedarcreek leadership just keeps getting more savvy and will try to commit their same abusive acts but do it more under the radar.  Once they figure out written excommunications are bad for outreach, they'll shift to different methods. 

Logged
Alexa Daley
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3



« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 09:09:40 pm »

Thank you to everyone for your kind comments! In a weird way, it's fun to correspond with all of you after just reading this forum for so long. I appreciate all of the feedback.

GodisFaithful, I'm fairly certain I did read the apology paper back when I first found this forum through gcmwarnings (either that or a summary; it was a long while ago). I do remember being surprised that things had come so far as to warrant such action, but only made me more aware that the problems stemmed from the organization itself and were not unique in any way to CedarCreek. It would be interesting to go back and reread it to see how many of the problems are still occurring. And may I add, thank you for all of your comments on this forum as well that have been an encouragement (I knew I would forget people, but wanted to thank as many as I could  Smiley )

And Rebel, as you and I seem to have the most in common, thank you for all of your feedback. Due to my friends in Eau Claire, I think I have an idea of who you are, but I'll leave that for a separate message! That's very interesting that the Edge was never supposed to be a church plant. We had no idea until we confronted Rob about our lack of decision making, so they hide it well. That was one of the main transparency issues that was supposed to be addressed, but never was. I don't blame you at all for burning out; we were all so exhausted and yet they kept pushing harder. It's honestly a miracle that my friends who left with me are still attending church at all.

And thank you also for drawing my attention to excommunication vs running out. Yes, I guess you could say they were run out; to my knowledge there was never any official documentation. It was more of a "verbal excommunication"; the quote you included reminds me a lot of what was said at the meetings ("clinging to unrepentant sin...we know what's best, we've worked through the Matthew 18 process.") With the Coulee Rock pastor, they had an entire sermon one Sunday morning telling us all the gory details of what happened (which was apparently grossly exaggerated, though I didn't know it at the time). Mark Bowen came from the cities and he, Dave, and Rob all said that these things had happened and that the pastor had gone through some sort of counseling previously (I don't remember church discipline being specifically mentioned). And though I don't remember any specific command not to talk to the family, it was implied that we should keep our distance as the family was struggling. That probably wasn't as big of a deal as it could have been to CedarCreek though, as the church plant to LaCrosse had left around five years prior and many of us never even knew the pastor that this entire sermon was about.

The CedarCreek pastor was, I believe, given a sort of ultimatum that would force him out, which of course put the decision (and subsequent blame) on the pastor. There wasn't discipline to my knowledge but I think he was given X amount of time to "shape up" before this happened. However, half of what I know about this in particular I wasn't even supposed to know and may not be the whole story, so feel free to correct me! However, this part I'm sure of: They had not one, but two meetings (one for the church and one for the leadership) discussing what supposedly happened, involving serious breaches of confidentiality on CedarCreek's part and twisting the situation to make the family look bad. Again, I don't believe they demanded people not associate with them, but people who attended the meeting said it was extremely clear that you needed to choose if your loyalty fell to either the family or to CedarCreek. Again, no official documentation that I know of, but this was after I left. I did help a friend write a few emails to Rob expressing concerns with the whole process and got to read his cover-ups in great detail, shifting the narrative from CedarCreek forcing the family out to focusing on how the family was unstable and couldn't be trusted. It was heartbreaking.

Thank you for pointing out the difference to me, though. I shall be wise to mind my definitions in the future Smiley And feel free to message me about this or any other situations. I have a feeling I would find your CedarCreek experience to be (perhaps painfully so) incredibly interesting.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1