Looking for Information

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[Linda]

I think the best thing to do in trying to figure out what the group believes is to listen to their teaching and read their literature. Here are some excerpts from the first talk we heard where they started getting serious about making a lifetime commitment to them. There is so much error in the teaching (like the idea that each local church is a separate bride) that it is hard to know where to begin. But, any Christian reading it can easily see the theological error. It's hard to believe a pastor of 20-some years would be this misinformed.

He began the talk by saying how disappointed he was with his wife in the weeks after they got married. He was so disappointed, in fact that he started making a mental list of his wife's faults. Then he came upon Philippians 4:8 one day and it helped him realize that he should be thinking about whatever is good in his wife. There had been a mass exodus from the Urban Refuge church in the Fall of 2004 (not sure why to this day) so there had been loyalty talk and lots of clips from Braveheart shown at leadership meetings. He used the example of his disappointment with his wife to move on to exhort the church to stop complaining and commit for life.

You know, there's another bride in my life. I have two. One I'm married to, the other I'm part of. It's called Evergreen. It's called The Rock. It's called The Urban Refuge. And do you know what? We can do the same thing with that bride, can't we? We start comparing her to the features of another. We start comparing. We start looking at the flaws. We start violating Philippians 4 verse 8 and the God of peace is no longer with us, but we are filled with the God of turmoil. And the God of frustration and the God of exasperation. And the God of what I don't have. And discontentment begins to fill our heart instead of a deep well of appreciation and gratefulness for what we have. I want you to look around you for just a moment. Look around you. Look at the person next to you. People behind you. This is the bride you belong to. We are borrowing tonight another bride's home. But this is the bride you belong to. And the question that we want to ask ourselves tonight is how much do you love her…Do you know how we know that you are really passionately committed to Christ the Head? Because of your passionate commitment and devotion to His body the bride. The people sitting next to you. Your love goes no deeper than that. Your commitment goes no deeper than that. You've had mine, as you know, for 18 years and you'll have it till I die. Because when I love you, when I think wonderful things about you, I'm loving God. I'm loving Christ. You see, God, He put me in this church. He didn't put me in the church down the street. Do I hate the church down the street? No because they are also the bride of Christ. But that's another man's bride. You're mine…Your heart is in love with Christ as your heart is in love with your local church. You serve and are passionately committed to Jesus Christ as much to the degree as you are passionately committed to your church…Would you say that I really loved my wife if I withheld my money from her? Would you say that we really love God if we keep it from the bride?…I want to challenge you tonight from my heart that loves you. Let's become people that focus in obedience to the Scripture on what is good and what is lovely and what is admirable and what is praise worthy and what is excellent about this church. Let's stop critiquing it. Let's stop tearing it down in any way that we may in our own mind. Let's stop fault finding for the Bible says if we continue doing that, we devour one another…I've been now 30 years with Great Commission churches. I'll die with Great Commission churches. I'll die in a Great Commission church. You are part of Great Commission Churches. Evergreen, The Rock, Urban Refuge, all part of Great Commission Churches. You have my heart. Are they the greatest best thing? Are there other people that have wonderful  things. Of course there are. Just like there are other men they're proud of they're wife. They've got a wonderful wife, but I'm really proud of mine. And I'm really thankful for what God has done…I'd like to ask you tonight to make a renewed commitment, the Devil, he's fighting us tooth and nail, he's fighting God's people all over this city, all over this world, and I'd like to ask you tonight to make a renewed commitment that says, "God, freshly I give you my heart and I give this church my heart.God freshly I give you my life and my talents and my resources and Lord, I freshly give these  men and women, this band of men and women that you have put me with, I give you and I give them my commitment my love, my loyalty, my devotion, my service, my joyful service, I will do all in my power, oh Lord, to make this bride beautiful and to treasure her and to value her and to speak admirably of her to focus and thank you Lord for what's good and what's lovely...

[Linda]

Steph, As a member of a GC church, I had no idea how "sectarian" this group was for most of the time I attended. Looking back, it is really embarrassing and frightening to me because I like to think of myself as a "perceptive" person.  I had been a Christian for over 30 years and part of a GC church for nearly 10 before I caught on.

They really believe they have something special. They want people to join THEM, their movement. You will note, they are not talking about leading people to the Lord, they are talking about joining them...for life. Here is a quote:

If someone is going to “cross over” in their heart and join us, the steps are still the same. In our local church, in our region, in our movement.   

   1.  They show up.  And they keep showing up.
   2.  They begin to process and understand what our core beliefs are.
   3.  They hold to our beliefs, and begin to speak up for them. 
      They “own” our vision.
   4.  They ‘roll up their sleeves’ and get involved in serving.
   5.  They begin to be faithful in sharing their time, their money, their
      home and resources - in our shared vision, our common cause.
   6.  And they say, “This is my family and I will fight for it.”

   This is how someone joins our ranks in a local church.  This is how someone joins our region.  This is how someone joins our movement.  The steps are exactly the same.  This process is what we are looking for in our local church and it is what we are looking for across this movement of churches. 

Here is the link to the full text. It is #133, On the Wall.

http://www.gcnwdads.com/pages/articles.html

[MarthaH]

Hello Steph,
I hope this information helps you and your daughter. This is what the regional leader, Rick Whitney, believes in his own words. The following excerpt is under the subject heading of 'God's Will for Your Life', in the booklet he published in 2006 entitled On The Wall. I have copied it in its entirety, so the context should speak for itself. Also, I emphasized the points that were emphasized in Rick's booklet and did not add to it.

We pledged our lives to preach and build His kingdom together.
   I believe that one of the single biggest decisions we will ever make, as a Christian, that will determine our success as a believer, is whether we will commit to our brothers and sisters in Christ for the rest of our lives.
   Because of our commitment to "God and make disciples," we knew we would probably be in different churches in the years to come. And we guessed that believers might disappoint us. But our life-long commitment to each other and to those brothers and sisters would remain the same.
   Almost every major life lesson I have ever learned as a Christian, was taught to me in my local church. It is in community that our life and our mission are worked out.
   And it is in our local church where we can achieve greatness.
   You can not say you are commtted to the army, but not be committed to the soldier right beside you. If anything, the soldier tells us that he would do anything for his platoon. That he would never leave his fellow soldier behind. There is application here for us in the church.
   And how can we say that we believe in the family in principle, but not care about our brother, or sister, or mom, or dad?
   We first must belong to someone and something, before we can really understand it, appreciate it, serve it, or lead it. If we love the concept of the church, as taught in the New Testament, then we ought to find a local church and show it.
   John Wooden, the famous UCLA coach, said, "We need someone or something, to which we must be loyal, if we are ever going to reach our potential."
   We need each other in the local church if we are ever going to reach our potential as Christians and as followers of Jesus Christ. Find a body of believers where you can, "Plant your flag in the middle of some bloody field and die!
   You might ask, what do you mean? Plant my flag, and die?
   Where would I do that?
   It's easy to find a "where," the challenge is in the doing.
   Commit your heart to your local church and then show it, by serving your brothers and sisters in Christ until your knuckles are raw. Serve the people until your heart is broken. Then serve some more. And keep on serving - because they are family.
   As Paul served the Corinthians, serve your local church.
   Remember how he said that he most gladly spent his life for them, and then he went a little further. He went on to say in Corinthians that he most gladly would be spent by them. "Spend and be spent." KJV "And I will most gladly spend and be expended for your souls." NAS - II Corinthians 12:15
   What a great heart! What a committed heart!
   I am tired of men who declare their loyalty to God or to the universal church, but not to other men. Our Lord desires brotherhood. I won't walk with men who are not loyal, who are not committed to their local church. I don't have time. They lack courage.
   You can not truly declare your loyalty to God or the church without being loyal to other men. Don't waste your time by trying to be teamed with men who are not committed to the local church. What we pledged, was to unite with each other, we brothers who had demonstrated a loyalty. A loyalty that has been tested over and over again.
   "To have no loyalty is to have no dignity and in the end, no manhood." - Peter Taylor Forsyth

[boboso]

When one of the "leaders" approached me concerning getting "leadership training", it was then that the idea of lifetime commitment to the movement was spelled out for me. This was really the beginning of the end for us in that church.

The "leader" confirmed to me that the extra commitment was over and above what the Bible requires. I had to ask over and over again to get a straight answer. As soon as he replied, "yes", that's when I said "thanks, but no thanks".

Strangely, I asked the same "leader" if GCx didn't exist, would Christianity exist and he dodged the question (like before).

The Bible calls us to lay down our lives for one another. Somehow, devoting your entire life to a temporal movement is better than just "laying down your life so that others may live". When a person (or a movement, or a gathering) tells you their words are preferable to the Word of God, that's the cue to go.

[newcreature]

Hi Steph,

Here are three other recent posts by other parents who were also concerned for their own college-aged students. The last link was posted by Sarah who also asked about WCCC/DCF. She called the University and they encouraged her to trust her instincts and steer her daughter clear of the group.

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/concerned-mom-and-dad-about-freshman-daughter-involved-in-campus-fellowship/

(you may have to copy and paste this one; the gc* seems to mess up the link)
http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/i-need-help-with-my-daughter-a-new-gc*-attendee/

http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/walnut-creek-community-church-desmoines/

[newcreature]

Hi Steph,

Best wishes in your search for information. I don't want to become an unwelcome guest in your thread, so this will be my last post on this topic.

I looked up the phone number for the Student Life Center at Drake. If you are interested in DU's perspective about the WCCC campus group, Campus Fellowship (Alive), you can call them at (515) 271-3711.

I also used the search feature on the home page of this website. If you type in Walnut and click the Search button, you will get a whole page of references with "the good, the bad, and the ugly" about WCCC.

Here is a positive post I found for WCCC: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/former-walnut-creekers/

Or you can read about their political activism, which has been a big part of many GCx churches for over 30 years now. Three years ago WCCC pastor Tim Rude equated Catholicism to Alcoholism when he called himself a "recovering Catholic" who wouldn't vote for a Catholic. He even made ABC National News for that bigoted remark. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2007/07/anti-catholic-b.html

Or you can read how WCCC sponsored a popular speaker in their GCx circles who advocates what amounts to child abuse in the minds of most parents. http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/'it-was-fun-for-them-as-long-as-they-weren't-getting-spanked-'/

May God lead you and guide you in the way you should go.

[steph]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for all the input that you have offered to me here and privately. It has been very helpful and it has contributed towards a better understanding of the group and the experiences of people involved. It seems that there are more people on this forum with positive than negative experiences with this church in particular, if the responses that I've received are an indication. I have also spoken with the university and another fellowship on campus regarding the church and the campus fellowship and they too have been very helpful.

I have spoken with my daughter and shared all the information that I have learned and she has found it very helpful as well.

I will no longer be checking this forum. Please contact me at my email if you have further thoughts/ experiences to share.

Again, I appreciate your help. Thank you and God bless.

[Linda]

It seems that there are more people on this forum with positive than negative experiences with this church in particular, if the responses that I've received are an indication.

I guess you aren't reading this anymore, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this.

Just because people have a bad "experience" doesn't make a group bad.
Just because people have a good "experience" doesn't make it good.

What matters in the case of GC is that those attending a GC church are fully informed about what the group believes and teaches on both the local and national level. National leaders dictate local policy. Local churches participate in national conferences, like Faithwalkers.

God bless you.

[blonde]

I respectfully disagree. Slander is "a malicious, false, and defamatory statement." Truthfully pointing out errors of doctrine or practice doesn't fit that definition. Besides, it is the duty of the church to expose false teachings. If we who know the errors of GC don't warn others, who will?

I really like this idea a lot!

-Blonde