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Author Topic: Deception & Denial among GCx Leaders  (Read 5302 times)
Huldah
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2021, 02:51:37 pm »

You really should give it up, Vince.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt at first, but now it seems pretty obvious that you're not here in good faith.

McCotter had thirteen years to come here and either prove us wrong or else apologize and make amends. Now the man who never had the courage to come to this forum wants us to come to his platform, where he can control the dialogue. We'd be pretty foolish to fall for that.
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Linda
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2021, 03:51:35 pm »

I am not here to ask Jim McCotter questions. I am here to warn people about the faulty teaching and practice of Great Commission Churches and their subsidiaries.

I read the Leadership book. We have a copy. Lots of faulty stuff in there. Neither he nor Dennis Clark have ever taken any of it back. Unity does not trump truth. Jim taught that.

The only good thing that will come of the spamming and trolling that is happening here is that the names Jim McCotter and Mark Darling are being amplified for search engines. If that's what you want, so be it.




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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2021, 08:43:10 pm »

You really should give it up, Vince.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt at first, but now it seems pretty obvious that you're not here in good faith.

McCotter had thirteen years to come here and either prove us wrong or else apologize and make amends. Now the man who never had the courage to come to this forum wants us to come to his platform, where he can control the dialogue. We'd be pretty foolish to fall for that.


McCotter isn't aware of your little website as far as i know.  Did you think this was a big deal or that Jim should feel an obligation to explain himself to gossips, slandered and revilers?  You have created a website for the sole purpose of hating a brother in Christ.  Do you realize how wrong that is?  Now, when you have the chance to make your claims directly to him you don't want to? Did you ever want to?  I know.  There's nothing like the real thing to mess up a perfectly good false accusation.  You are wrong and you could take a real step to getting right but instead you avoid the one thing you should have sought out all along: the opportunity to confront Jim about things you think he's done wrong TO HIS FACE instead of behind his back.  It makes me sad that you choose to remain bitter, when there's an open invitation to reconcile. 
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Huldah
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2021, 08:56:44 pm »


McCotter isn't aware of your little website as far as i know.  

Yeah, because Jim McCotter is probably the only person in the western world who has never Googled himself. He's modest like that, I guess.

Did you think this was a big deal or that Jim should feel an obligation to explain himself to gossips, slandered and revilers?

God forbid innocent Jimbo should subject himself to that. He's much too pure to sully himself here. What was I thinking?

It makes me sad that you choose to remain bitter, when there's an open invitation to reconcile.  

You don't come across as sad. You come across as angry and spoiling for a fight. You're probably enjoying this.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 09:01:21 pm by Huldah » Logged
PietWowo
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2021, 10:14:10 pm »


McCotter isn't aware of your little website as far as i know.  

Yeah, because Jim McCotter is probably the only person in the western world who has never Googled himself. He's modest like that, I guess.

Did you think this was a big deal or that Jim should feel an obligation to explain himself to gossips, slandered and revilers?

God forbid innocent Jimbo should subject himself to that. He's much too pure to sully himself here. What was I thinking?

It makes me sad that you choose to remain bitter, when there's an open invitation to reconcile.  

You don't come across as sad. You come across as angry and spoiling for a fight. You're probably enjoying this.

Huldah, you come across as presuming Vince's motives...

This is the big issue I have with this forum. Many people, who have had a hurtful experience with GCx and they just want to blame others without knowing if there is guilt there... Perfect case and point is Mark Darling....

If someone comes in here and states that Jim McCotter killed an old lady in Egypt, everyone accepts it without any questions. But if someone comes in here and says that Jim McCotter's teaching helped them a lot. Most people here won't rejoice on that. That makes the problems here seem like personal problems... not object true issues. If that was the case, they would be more open to talk and think through this... But people are getting upset. Because they haven't dealt with these issues themselves to see clearly... Like you said Huldah.... You were really hurt a lot in a GCx church... That's the issue...
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Huldah
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2021, 01:40:44 am »

Huldah, you come across as presuming Vince's motives...

I don't have to presume his motives. He's made his motives clear.

In English, PWW, we have an expression for what you're doing. It's called "gaslighting." Look it up.

When someone like Vince comes to the forum and makes false accusations in his very first post against people who've done him no wrong, when he continues to demonstrate open hostility in every single post he makes, and then you try to suggest that I'm the one at fault for calling him out--while you don't have a single word of criticism for him--that's gaslighting. Trying to make me doubt what I'm seeing even though it's obvious.

This is the big issue I have with this forum.

Then maybe this forum isn't the right place for you. You claim to understand how hurtful our experience was, and then as soon as someone like Vince comes along, who can't seem to post anything without slipping a verbal barb in, you side with him. You've consistently proven to be an ally and a defender of the people who've done the hurting. That's why I think there are other websites out there that might be a better match for you than this one, that would benefit more from what you have to offer. You do have something to offer, just not here, where you represent the system we oppose.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 01:56:30 am by Huldah » Logged
Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2021, 11:53:26 am »

Huldah, you come across as presuming Vince's motives...

I don't have to presume his motives. He's made his motives clear.

In English, PWW, we have an expression for what you're doing. It's called "gaslighting." Look it up.

When someone like Vince comes to the forum and makes false accusations in his very first post against people who've done him no wrong, when he continues to demonstrate open hostility in every single post he makes, and then you try to suggest that I'm the one at fault for calling him out--while you don't have a single word of criticism for him--that's gaslighting. Trying to make me doubt what I'm seeing even though it's obvious.

This is the big issue I have with this forum.


Then maybe this forum isn't the right place for you. You claim to understand how hurtful our experience was, and then as soon as someone like Vince comes along, who can't seem to post anything without slipping a verbal barb in, you side with him. You've consistently proven to be an ally and a defender of the people who've done the hurting. That's why I think there are other websites out there that might be a better match for you than this one, that would benefit more from what you have to offer. You do have something to offer, just not here, where you represent the system we oppose.


Huldah, this is where you really are missing it.  You think I don't have an issue with people who represent Jesus, and then show clearly that they hate a brother in Christ and have ZERO desire to iron things out?  It's God's reputation I'm jealous for.  Satan rejoices when believers trash other believers' character, the way you are doing with Jim.  It IS very sad to me because you are giving unbelievers the perfect excuse for NEVER believing.  You don't seem to realize what God went through for the opportunity to be reconciled with you when you refuse to be reconciled with Jim, who, no matter what, cannot even remotely approach the offense that we were to God, and yet He sought to reconcile and offered forgiveness in advance.  Don't you see how UN-God like you are when you refuse to confront the person you've discredited?  PLEASE seek for peace, as Paul commanded.  It is our responsibility as Jesus followers to be at peace with each other, and Jim is waiting to hear from ANYONE who has a problem with anything they think he has done, or witnessed things he has done in his past.  Why not love Jim, and everyone else?  Isn't that what we are  called to do?  Imagine if EVERYONE on here found out that you worked things out with Jim?  Imagine if you could tell everyone here that Jim is a precious possession of God, and is righteous and justified by the blood of Jesus, just like YOU are?  Wouldn't that be a HUGE witness?
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Huldah
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2021, 12:07:34 pm »

Yeah, when someone comes here and calls the forum members liars, slanderers, and gossips, and then that person refuses to provide a single example of lying, slandering, or gossiping, my default position is always, "Yep, this guy is all about protecting God's reputation."

Too late to try the nice-guy approach now, Vince. You've already shown your true colors.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2021, 02:25:44 pm »

Yeah, when someone comes here and calls the forum members liars, slanderers, and gossips, and then that person refuses to provide a single example of lying, slandering, or gossiping, my default position is always, "Yep, this guy is all about protecting God's reputation."

Too late to try the nice-guy approach now, Vince. You've already shown your true colors.

You want examples of gossip and slander?  Just read EVERY single negative thing people have written about Jim on here, from Jim's business exploits, to his teaching on things, etc.?  The entire site is about allowing people to accuse a believer of gross missconduct, and false teaching!  This site is FULL of gossip and slander against a brother.  It's EXACTLY what this site does:  Gossip and slander a brother in Christ.  You are supposed to do this, even if it IS true! 

...and yet...Jim is completely available for you to talk to.  Anyone on here can speak to Jim.  I hope someone will be encouraged to make peace and reconcile with Jim.  It would be a wonderful testimony!
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Huldah
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2021, 02:55:52 pm »

Gossip and slander a brother in Christ.  You are supposed to do this, even if it IS true! 

I trust there's a typo in there. With a dash of Freudian slip for good measure.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2021, 08:00:31 pm »

Just come on the show tomorrow live and I'll put you right on the screen next to Him and you can ask and acuse away!
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Huldah
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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2021, 08:49:23 pm »

Right, we should totally do that. Because nothing says, "This is totally legit and not some kind of set-up," like being interviewed by an unrepentant former cult leader while the cult leader's biggest fanboy mans the controls.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2021, 09:47:27 pm »

“This is totally legit and not some kind of set-up," like being interviewed by an unrepentant former cult leader while the cult leader's biggest fanboy mans the controls.”
-Huldah


Thank you, Huldah!



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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
PietWowo
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« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2021, 09:50:08 pm »

Right, we should totally do that. Because nothing says, "This is totally legit and not some kind of set-up," like being interviewed by an unrepentant former cult leader while the cult leader's biggest fanboy mans the controls.

Huldah, you've just clearly shown your stripes... You're here to oppose Jim McCotter and all of GCx... So, you don't want to be reconciled.... I can understand you not wanting to come on his podcast.... but if you wanted to be reconciled than you would maybe want to have a personal phone call with him and request Vince for that... But maybe you think that would be a waste of time... BTW, you have yet to show one false doctrine he taught... And he didn't teach that unity trumps truth.... Yes, if he taught that, then the Scriptures also say: "there is no God"  (Psalm 14:1).... Context is everything!!! Very important hermeneutical principle.

I'm familiar with the term gaslighting.... Thank you very much.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2021, 09:54:23 pm »

Here is a very enlightening article about “gaslighting” from “gotquestions.org”.  It has been copied from the original (link below) with portions that I highlighted in red and magenta that seem particularly important in view of unsupportive views recently appearing on this website.  This is also for the victims themselves, for whom this website was created, to speak out anonymously against the spiritual abuse caused by False Teaching and Practices In GCx Churches founded by Jim McCotter and his disciples.


Question:  “What is gaslighting?"

Answer: Gaslighting is a form of emotional and psychological abuse designed to gain control over the victim. Gaslighting has three main components: 1) Convincing the victim that the abuse she suffers is her fault, 2) Convincing the victim that she did not experience what she thinks she did, and 3) Separating the victim from people who support her. The tone of the victimizer can alternate between concerned and kind, and angry and abusive. The victim slowly learns to mistrust her own judgment, perception, and even sanity until she relies on the abuser to define reality for her.

The term gaslighting comes from the 1944 movie Gaslight staring Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman, which was based on a 1938 play, Gas Light. In the story, a woman named Paula moves with her new husband to her family home after the murder of her aunt, a rich opera singer. Paula begins to witness strange things like a picture disappearing, a brooch gone missing, and the titular gas lights dimming. Her husband convinces her that the incidents are either caused by her or never happened. He uses Paula’s supposed mental issues to justify his efforts to further sequester her in the house. In the end, we learn he had murdered Paula’s aunt and developed an elaborate plan to discredit Paula to her own mind so he could freely search the house for her aunt’s jewels.

The primary aim of the abuser who uses gaslighting is to manipulate his victim into believing him more than her own mind. The victim begins to doubt the reality of situations she clearly witnessed and to disbelieve her perception of the abuser’s behavior. The abuser alternates his nefarious behavior with concern and encouragement, leading his victim to rely on him for stability and support, and isolating her from those who have a true interest in her well-being.

Another example of gaslighting in popular fiction is Wormtongue’s “council” for Théoden, king of Rohan, in The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. By the time help arrives, in the form of Gandalf the wizard, King Théoden so doubts his own mind that he believes everything Wormtongue tells him. In the movie version, Wormtongue also tries to gaslight Eowyn, telling her she is alone, implying that neither her uncle Théoden nor her brother can save her. She resists by turning away and declaring, “Your words are poison!”

Not all gaslighters are aware of what they are doing. Some have so deceived themselves they actually believe the lies they’re telling. Others are so afraid of the truth that they do anything they can to hide it. Kids often have no problem gaslighting their parents—falsely claiming mom never told them to do the dishes, for example—in order to avoid a punishment. Other gaslighters know exactly what they’re doing. “Negging” is a manipulative flirting technique wherein the man passive-aggressively insults the woman until her confidence drops and she feels the need to make him have a more positive view of her—often by doing what he wants. Whether intentional or not, gaslighting is sin and comes from a place of selfishness and a desire to control.

In fact, gaslighting was utilized in the first temptation mentioned in the Bible. Satan first prompts Eve to question what she heard God say about the tree of knowledge, and then he asserts that her account is wrong. That is gaslighting, as he caused Eve to doubt the reality of what she knew to be true (Genesis 3:1–3).

Gaslighting is also common in cults and abusive “churches,” as well as politics. It can be seen in abusers who convince children they deserve or desire their abuse. In preachers who tell questioning parishioners that their request for clarification on spiritual matters is sinful mistrust of God and disrespect of the pastor. Or in parishioners who criticize and then vaguely praise their pastor in an attempt to control him. In the political arena, when a leader or even a country flatly denies doing or saying what they publicly did or said, others may find it extremely difficult to counter the lie, especially if the media provides cover, or to address the issue in a meaningful way.

For the Gaslighter Gaslighting can come from a place of great fear or great narcissism. It may be learned or instinctive. It is difficult for a gaslighter to admit he or she has a problem because the gaslighter believes that arranging the world in the “proper” way is a legitimate and reasonable goal. Anyone who works against that goal is obviously wrong and needs to be set straight. The Bible says differently:

“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others” (Philippians 2:3–4).

“For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you” (Romans 12:3).

“Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves” (Romans 12:10).

If you realize—or you’re told—that you are manipulative and controlling, please seek counseling. It’s likely there is a deep-seated wound that only Jesus can heal. And He is willing!

For the Abused – God made us to be interdependent on others in the church, but He did not make us to abandon all reason and rely solely on another’s judgment. God wants us to live in the truth.

Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long” (Psalm 25:5).

“Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things” (Philippians 4:8 )

“For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love, and self-discipline” (2 Timothy 1:7).

If you suspect you are being gaslighted, please seek counseling. Do not isolate yourself from godly friends. And, if need be, keep a journal so you can remind yourself of the facts. If the gaslighter is a partner in a dating relationship, seriously consider ending that relationship. If you feel gaslighted in the church and discouraged from finding answers to your spiritual questions, come to GotQuestions.org!

Recommended Resource: The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse by Johnson & VanVonderen



Copied in full from:
https://www.gotquestions.org/gaslighting.html





« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 09:24:33 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
PietWowo
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2021, 12:45:51 am »

That's a very good article.... I like the reference it made to satan how he deceived Eve....
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Huldah
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2021, 07:10:25 am »

Huldah, you've just clearly shown your stripes... You're here to oppose Jim McCotter and all of GCx...

Good grief, PWW, you've been here, how long now?, and you finally just figured out the bleeding obvious?

I'm here to oppose false teaching and spiritual abuse. Sorry if I previously gave you the impression that I was a McCotter supporter. I assure you that was entirely accidental on my part.

And yes, that's also sarcasm.
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Huldah
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2021, 08:46:31 am »

That's such a good article, Janet.

“Negging” is a manipulative flirting technique wherein the man passive-aggressively insults the woman until her confidence drops and she feels the need to make him have a more positive view of her—often by doing what he wants. Whether intentional or not, gaslighting is sin and comes from a place of selfishness and a desire to control.

Negging isn't limited to flirting. We've seen it this week, right here on the forum, in Vince's attempts to get us to join his YouTube livestreams.

Even if he had asked in a less abrasive manner, I doubt anyone here would have been interested. The fact that he was so abrasive makes me wonder whether the invitation was sincere in the first place.

Perhaps he was deliberately setting us up to reject it from the beginning, so he could say, "I tried, but they wouldn't even give me a chance." Or maybe he really wanted us to participate after all, but he was just so angry that he sabotaged his own efforts. These are the only logical reasons I can think of why anyone would phrase an invitation in a way that's almost guaranteed to get rejected.

This isn't about hating Vince or McCotter. Part of this forum's mission is to point out the tactics of abusers and their allies (edit to add: at least as far as those tactics relate to GCx and its supporters). We just never know who's lurking here or what they're going through. Maybe Janet's post will help some of our silent readers avoid being gaslighted and negged into doing things that are not in their own best interests.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 11:06:16 am by Huldah » Logged
Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2021, 04:54:15 pm »

A History of Showing PARTIALITY
Toward It’s Abusive Leaders


GCx failed throughout their history in confronting and rebuking abusive and deceptive leaders likely because their founder practiced this as a standard in carrying out his agenda in this church organization. If they would have publically rebuked McCotter other leaders would have feared sinning against their people in this way and prevented thousands of people from being spiritually abused. God’s Word speaks of his requirement and standard for Christian leaders.



For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and people should seek instruction from his mouth,
because he is the messenger of the LORD of Hosts. But you have departed from the way,
and your instruction has caused many to stumble.
You have violated the covenant of Levi,” says the LORD of Hosts.
 “So I in turn have made you despised and humiliated before all the people,
because you have not kept My ways, but have shown partiality in matters of the law.”

Malachi 2:7-9


Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.
But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone,
so that the others may take warning
.
I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels,
 to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

1 Timothy 5:19-21



McCotter was not rebuked in the Weakness Paper.  He was actually honored in their 50 Year Jubilee Video.


You have wearied the LORD with your words; yet you ask, “How have we wearied Him?”
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the sight of the LORD, and in them He delights...

Malachi 3:17


« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 08:05:45 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2021, 08:03:18 am »

You keep trying to attack people's character ones of pointing out specific issues and discussing them.  Why not join Him on the podcast and oppose him to his face?  I am sure he would welcome that.  Why not mend and get things right?
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