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Author Topic: Deception & Denial among GCx Leaders  (Read 3906 times)
Janet Easson Martin
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« on: January 14, 2021, 08:14:51 pm »

GCx Church Leadership Engages in Deception



Though GCx Church Leadership deny it, they have continually used deception to control their people. GCx is the group that originated in the early 70’s with several key names such as The Blitz, GCI, GCM GCAC, & GCC.  They keep morphing their name so that they might escape the bad reputation of their practices. Though they have announced an end to their organization as it exists at a national level, their churches still continue today under new regional branch and local church names.  
 
The founder, James D. McCotter, regularly used crooked means to build this church empire.  From research on his activities after he left this group, it is quite apparent that deception continued to be a way of life for him.  Unfortunately, many of his disciples have adopted this philosophy of false persuasion in how they direct their members and deal with those questioning their abusive methods of “pastoring”. God has a lot to say about pastors deluding and ensnaring their people.  Here is one that particularly applies to their methods of shepherding:


I am saying this so that no one will deceive you with persuasive arguments.  ... Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.
Colossians 2:4,8

GCx leaders have been trained to deny nearly all wrongdoing, or in the least minimize it.  Here are some former members who dared to tell their stories on this De-Commissioned Forum.  To avoid harassment and slander, most have chosen to use a pseudonym.  Many former members will find relief and comfort that they weren’t alone.



Then he told us that he [GCx Director HM] had to tell the elders that what had truly transpired between H. and me didn't happen.  I was subsequently called into a meeting where I was labeled a liar and that I was using H’s name to strengthen my case.  

I had faced moral dilemmas in the past in the church, but this matter with H. was devastating.  If H. could lie, and manipulate events like Jim [McCotter] and the other elders could, then the whole godly foundation of the movement was suspect.  He fed my family to the wolves, and it started to unravel in my mind.  HM!?  How could he do this to us?  What a shocker.  My wife and I wrote him a letter outlining what had happened and gave no doubt that this was not how a man of God should behave.  We then called him when we got no reply, and he simply said that he didn't read the letter and that he never would.  (I shared this with another ex-elder who said without a doubt -- "Oh, he read the letter.")  This was the beginning of the end for us.
-OldTimer



The lies and the oppression started from the first moment I opened the door of my dormitory room and listened to what two nice people had to say about the Bible. Preaching the gospel was never enough for McCotter & Co. They sought to reel people in, step by step, until everyone had become entirely assimilated. ...we spent the ensuing weeks following the church's schedule -- every single day of the week! We had one evening for this group, another evening for that group...
The whole idea of everybody being on the same schedule really ought to have struck me as too...weird; but at the time, I had already been assimilated enough that it did not strike me at all.
-ISU Alumna



It's how they get all the people who want a young, hip, progressive congregation.  They meet in a loft space, have cool music, and talk "emergent"... then you join and realize that the group is actually quite controlling...  You might have started out aiming for medical school, joining the church and then becoming an untrained pastor.  You may be a woman that likes a guy, then you realize you can't just LIKE a guy without permission (if you are core of course). ... I don't think people are aware of the "GC till you die" doctrine when they first join.
-AgathaL’Orange



I can say, though, that the [GCx] Ames church seems very cool and normal at first, and after a few years if you aren't believing the lies, it becomes obvious that something is dangerously wrong.
-ns    [left~2007]


The Great Commission Association of Churches (GCAC) is an evangelical Christian association of churches based in Columbus, Ohio, USA. Formalised as a movement in 1970, it is developing a world reach in its aim of 'planting' churches that are based on first-century Christianity. It has been criticised for its authoritarian approach, with local church elders directing many aspects of members lives, and has been described as 'abusive' and 'cult-like' with an out-dated attitude to the role of women in the church. In response the Association argues that it has a scripture-based philosophy, that accords with the teachings of the early Church, and that a person's value is in Christ.
-Wikipedia*
  
 *[This is an old revision of this page, as edited by ClaudeReigns (talk | contribs) at 04:48, 9 April 2007 (→The "Blitz Movement" Begins: for lack of a better Blitz picture....). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.]

Important Note: GCx had this section removed in its entirety from the Wikipedia page about them.  


I noticed their website is completely redone. ... What I saw was the most bizarre, surreal thing I have ever experienced.  The entire section is completely different than what it was a year ago.  It's like they revamped the entire website because of this forum/GCMwarning site.  It states that GCM [GCx alias] was started in 1989 and has no history before that.  It's not connecting to any other GC church. There's nothing about how there was an apology made in 1991 or whatever.

The Walnut Creek Community Church Website does not mention that they are affiliated with the Great Commission Association of Churches. Even if the parents do their homework, they do not have enough information to make an informed decision.
-LucyB



I was on staff for a number of years and had problems. I was a member of a GCAC church while on staff and had problems there, too. When I was in training for staff (to learn how to raise support) we were told GCM is the mission arm of GCAC. When I write my intro I'll explain a bit more, but don't believe if someone says they're separate. On paper, yes....in locations, yes...but in interacting, no way.....we had a Pastor/Staff conference each year where GCM staffers and pastors from GCAC churches all attended & heard the same teachings from the same people. Don't buy it.
-formerstaffer




This is what God himself (in His Word) has to say to those deceptive shepherds.  He has seen everything!  He has seen how each person in the group was seduced, ensnared and entrapped.  He has seen and heard how his children were disrespected and bullied.  God has plenty of time at the judgement of believers to expose  arrogance, selfish ambition, and False Teaching; if they know Christ.  There will be true tears of apology and regret then for a short time.  There will be no award for things done solely for men’s praise.


“prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? ... You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally.”


Ezekiel 34:2-5




« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 09:42:56 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2021, 11:55:04 pm »

So, how long ago were you with GCx? Or when was the last time you dealt with them... Janeth?
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2021, 06:41:53 pm »

More Deception and Denial Among GCx Leadership

FEAR OF NEGATIVE INFORMATION TO GAIN CONTROL


Another false persuasion McCotter (and many of his disciples) fiercely taught to members of GCx was that of instilling fear of negative information about the group or its leaders to keep their members from rejecting their spiritually abusive authority. Below is an excerpt from “Twisted Scriptures - Breaking Free from Churches That Abuse” (Zondervan) by Mary Alice Chrnalogar that describes well what also happened in GCx.  This is why concerned friends and family of it’s members were often rebuffed or totally rejected for asking questions about the group.


”Abusive and controlling groups concentrate on these two essential elements: Teach the discipled that any negative or critical words are probably sinful. Teach them to fear those “sins” so greatly that they will react forcefully and irrationally toward anyone (family, friend, fellow Christian) who dares suggest that their group might be making a mistake…

…If you consistently denigrate outsiders, labeling them as not committed, demonic, or worldly, you can probably prevent the subject from accepting most information offered by those outsiders. If the information can be prevented from being seen as credible, the subjects will refuse to be informed about the errors you are trying to teach them…”



Unquestioning loyalty to the top. They would befriend students, then turn on them and accuse them of disloyalty if they questioned anything about the leadership. I know from first-hand observation this was still going on in the late 90s and early 2000s.
-HolyMoly



When you bring the issue of an abusive pastor to the attention of leadership, instead of addressing the core problems, they will argue about insignificant details. The pastor will create diversion problems to take the focus off of the real problem. ...In my opinions leadership is aware that something is very wrong, but they don't care to fix it.
-banished



I can think of a few instances where going to pastors or a church's board of "pastors" didn't resolve legitimate concerns or grievances. In fact, there often is just a "circling of the wagons," protecting and defending the leadership. When you mention a problem, then you usually end up being a problem.
-DesiringTruth



Jim McCotter [founder of the GCx organization] is a evil, unethical, deceptive man that GCM [GCx alias] as a movement has not renounced or excommunicated. This is the danger in sweeping sin under the rug. ...This forum and social media are now ways that the sins of the leaders cannot just be swept under the rug.
-Marie



The "leadership" attitude was arrogant, condescending, pompous, self-righteous, and outright filthy. When anyone brought up a reasonable point, they were immediately marginalized and told to sit down and shut up. The women were treated with such disrespect. ...Yes, they are hurting many believers -- however, I do not believe they know what damage they're causing nor do I think they are evil. I believe these "leaders" are misguided, confused, stubborn, and misinformed (and some very egotistical). ...Obedience to leadership was to be unquestioned. I was told directly, "if you find a conflict in your own study, just go with what the leader says (blindly)".
-boboso



A pastor who approaches a... former member, and attempts to secure not only a withdrawal of criticisms but also the identities of other former members with criticism, has crossed the line of his authority. The line has been crossed in other instances and those pastors go unpunished by Great Commission.  The choices to preserve the power of their authority and the authority of the organization to the detriment of the well-being of individual members is blatant in each of these instances.
-Jehu



“Twisted Scriptures” insightfully assists us in looking at the dangers of deceptive persuasion and asks some frank questions.  The author herself was once in a controlled environment like this and speaks of the resulting loss of relationship for a time with her own mother.  Imagining your son or daughter getting caught up in a church like this can help us understand how destructive these indoctrinations can be.


“…If you refuse to listen to negative information, it may be because your group has instilled in you the fear that you will hear something negative about your leaders or group. They have you believing that, if you listen to such criticism or questioning, you will fall away by committing the sin of doubting the leaders. They are just trying to scare you into not hearing the truth. If these leaders weren’t hiding something, they wouldn’t have to do all this controlling of negative information.

Do you realize that by telling your family or friends they cannot speak negatively to you, you may be telling God He cannot give you any negative information about your group through your family or friends? That is what you are doing. Maybe God wants to use your family or friends as His instruments for shedding light on something that may not be right in your group…


Another question you may want to consider is: WHY would your church leadership call it sinful to read their history as reported by former members on this site?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 04:13:30 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 09:59:26 am »

Quotes from GCx Teachings Instilling Fear
 of Negative Information




The following are actual quotes from the teachings of GCx leaders.  These teachings follow the pattern of deception described above in “Twisted Scriptures”.


“When No One’s Looking - Part 11″ Taught by SB [GCx Pastor name abbreviated] (8/27/2006), Evergreen Community Church:

“Now, if he takes that personal opinion, that personal conviction, which the bible doesn’t clearly teach, at all, and starts talking to people and trying to rally them around his opinion, trying to convince them to think like he does and it becomes divisive. If he puts up a website [pause] or a blog [pause] that’s openly divisive.. then that’s not from God. … A person who has a heart to be divisive is following his sin nature. He’s not following Christ, it’s not from God. So use discernment.. Be careful what books you read. Make sure it’s God’s opinion, not man’s opinion. Be careful what websites you read because there’s a lot of people with a heart to divide.”


"Slander and the Christian Walk" Taught by SN [GCx Pastor] Summitview Greeley

So, you’ve got to be really careful what you let into your ear…for that reason I am not going to tell you guys what that web site [Note: he's talking about gcmwarning.com] is because I don’t think it’s good, I don’t think you should go to it…I just encourage you just don’t even entertain it, don’t pursue it, because it’s gossip. ... I am your spiritual father and I encourage you to follow me, not these slanderers not these people who are talking against me, follow me and I encourage you guys as we are a spiritual family be careful not to give your allegiance to somebody who has no interest in your life, to a slanderer, but I encourage you to give your allegiance to us as a church as a family follow our way of life.




These teachings silence the real testimony of former members and attempt to block the hearing of real information by its current members that would be essential to getting a fair and balanced assessment of their group.  The Bible actually does teach us to warn believers where God’s Truth is being distorted to pull his people away from sound teaching.  The Word of God also instructs us to expose false teaching and take our concerns to the leaders, and if they don’t listen, to the church.  This Forum is full of reports of members taking concerns to its leaders to no avail; and most often finding themselves labeled as “divisive” and sinful. This teaching stems all the way back from the founder of GCx, James D. McCotter.




“Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day...”    Acts 20:30-31



« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 02:13:00 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2021, 03:09:03 pm »

Quote
“When No One’s Looking - Part 11″ Taught by SB [GCx Pastor name abbreviated] (8/27/2006), Evergreen Community Church:

“Now, if he takes that personal opinion, that personal conviction, which the bible doesn’t clearly teach, at all, and starts talking to people and trying to rally them around his opinion, trying to convince them to think like he does and it becomes divisive. If he puts up a website [pause] or a blog [pause] that’s openly divisive.. then that’s not from God. … A person who has a heart to be divisive is following his sin nature. He’s not following Christ, it’s not from God. So use discernment.. Be careful what books you read. Make sure it’s God’s opinion, not man’s opinion. Be careful what websites you read because there’s a lot of people with a heart to divide.”

Reading this actually made me laugh. There was a time it made me cry. This "sermon" was preached against my husband A YEAR AFTER WE LEFT when some talk had been going around that we left because we didn't like the youth group and he wanted to set the record straight that we left because of false teaching, so he blogged our reasons for anyone interested.

I have sympathy for many of these people because it is so clear that they are deceived. It still stings to be called names, of course, but there is an element of pity for those caught in the trap. I still pray that eyes will be opened.
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2021, 07:48:06 pm »

Linda, thanks for sharing that. I didn’t know it was in response to your husband or him communicating the truth about why your family left.  That’s very interesting.  So sad that not only was his real reason denied, but that one was conjured up to hide a serious problem among the leadership - that of false teaching.  

How kind of you to extend grace to those who believed the deception of GCx leaders, and accepted the labels so often attributed to those who left.  Our heart does very much go out to them because they have heard the message over and over that leaving their church is equivalent to disloyalty to God - to sinning against Him.  Most members in their churches want to know how to please God, and they have been painfully mislead about how to do so.  It makes me sad also just to write about how they are cheated out of the abundant and free life God offers us.  

Of course, if they have accepted Christ, and the payment he made on the cross for them, they are saved eternally.  God loves them and passionately seeks them to trust Him, His Word, and His Spirit to personally direct them rather than those who seek to take His place.  

I once was zealously loyal to the leaders in the GCx.  And through that loyalty hurt a lot of people.  Little by little God revealed to me the layers of deception.  It is often not visible all at once.  Perhaps we would be severely paralyzed with shock if it were.  



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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2021, 09:56:08 am »

Quote
Linda, thanks for sharing that. I didn’t know it was in response to your husband or him communicating the truth about why your family left.  That’s very interesting.  So sad that not only was his real reason denied, but that one was conjured up to hide a serious problem among the leadership - that of false teaching.  

We left ECC in the Summer of 2005 after spending months asking questions of several pastors. We started asking questions in February of 2005 after a large all church gathering where Mark Darling told us we were his (Mark's) bride and leaving your church was akin to divorcing your spouse. Within weeks a Google search revealed the name Jim McCotter (we had never heard him mentioned by name) and we found GCC on cult lists. We also came across Wellspring and Terry called Larry Pile. At that point, Larry sent us "Marching to Zion" and our eyes were opened.

Not wanting to cause "division", we left quietly and tried not to speak of our reasons for departure. We were asked not to tell others why we left. We would not agree to that, but we didn't seek people out to tell them. Oddly, no-one asked. We later learned that it was because they had been told we were dissatisfied with the youth group when the reality was that we had learned the truth about GCC. We also learned that people were told not to ask.

Fast forward a year to June or so of 2006 and Terry decided to blog about our reasons for departure. That way, if anyone asked, he could point them to his thoughts. Honestly, no-one asked, but in August, some ECC attenders saw his post and asked leadership about it.

This led to the "sermon" you quoted above. When he got to the part about putting up a blog, we were told by some there that he paused and looked at some of our children's friends so they knew that Terry was being referenced. What made it obvious though was that as soon as he finished that "sermon" he emailed Terry and told him to take down the blog. This was over a year after we left.

While feeling controlled like this was upsetting, what was more upsetting was that I was the director of a homeschool coop and many in ECC leadership were involved and threatened to leave if Terry didn't take down the post. We sat on it for a few days and sought advice from Christians we trusted. All but one couple said to keep it up. We decided to listen to the one couple because their reason was that Christians should be at peace with each other. Terry decided to remove his post.

It didn't bring peace. The aftermath of it was that a dozen students pulled out of the Coop. This put a financial hardship on the group because tuition for the year had been set and we set tuition by dividing the costs for the year by the number of students. (This was a non-paying job for me so it only hurt the families and caused the board to have to scramble to cut a few hundred dollars from the budget.) One of the pastors, Jeff Groen, hand delivered (pulled up to the house at noon on a week day when Terry was not home) a letter pulling out of the coop (to his credit, he paid the first semester's tuition for his three children). It was also a letter of shunning calling us "divisive brothers and sisters in the Lord" and I think they used the verses in Titus about warning a divisive person once, twice, and then having nothing to do with them.

The great irony is that Agatha was Googling. She saw the blog post. She saw the request to take it down. And along with some friends, she started the anonymous Decomm blog as a result of this. If people were anonymous, they couldn't be singled out and intimidated, but could speak the truth. That blog morphed into this forum. So, had that sermon not been preached, this forum would not exist.






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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2021, 01:15:53 pm »

Wow!!  That gives me chills.   The courageous power of even one person speaking out alone against False Teaching produced a LOT of healing!  

Thank you so much, Terry.  Thank you, thank you, Agatha.  This Forum and (atleast for me) a lot of Christian Counseling has brought much comfort and healing to wounds that ran deep.  It brought comfort to my soul that I was not alone in my worry that I was never doing enough for God; reading documented testimonies that were substantially similar to mine.  This site confirmed that it was rooted in the decade of false teaching that I was under.  

Oh my gosh, thank you SO much for doing the right thing.  God says in his Word to take these deviant teachings to the people who taught them, and then take other witnesses with you to the other leaders if they won’t listen; and if they refuse to listen and repent, finally take it to the church.  The leaders teaching these serious errors are definitely not fit for the authority and priveledge of teaching God’s Word.  Actually, the Bible says to severely rebuke them, and treat these errant leaders as pagans.  It is not the innocent believers who question the many instances of deliberate twisting of scripture that hold people seductively captive and intrusively oppressed who are to be avoided, it is those who intentionally cripple the church body with this deception.

PRAISE GOD!  Thank you, Lord, for delivering us from captivity to false teachers and setting us free to discover the loving and compassionate shepherd you REALLY are.  I love you, Lord.

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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2021, 10:01:50 pm »


One crucial deception of GCx Leaders is how they portray and label people writing on this Forum.  Please read the words of some of the contributors on this site to hear the other side which likely you have not been told.  In most cases not only were you not getting balanced information, you weren’t getting the truth.





I ask for those who are looking to take a step out of your comfort zone and look into practices of abusive churches. I came to this site several years ago and my "leader" spun it to make it seem like the problems listed here were fabricated. Now that I am gone, I can see clearly that they were not. However, it was so hard for me to look into it because I didn't want to believe I was in a bad group.
-wounded



...he implied that anyone who blogged about problems with a GC church did so solely because they'd decided not to try to resolve their problems privately with their leaders. I spent my last two years in the GC doing practically nothing but trying to resolve things with leaders, getting into ever bigger conflicts until my leaders finally had enough of me.  Then I blogged about it!
-2xA Ron


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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2021, 02:57:32 pm »

Quote

...he implied that anyone who blogged about problems with a GC church did so solely because they'd decided not to try to resolve their problems privately with their leaders. I spent my last two years in the GC doing practically nothing but trying to resolve things with leaders, getting into ever bigger conflicts until my leaders finally had enough of me.  Then I blogged about it!
-2xA Ron


Same here. I found that trying to resolve things 1) didn't solve the problem, because nothing changed, and 2) put me on the radar as a troublemaker. So then I had two problems instead of one.
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2021, 07:28:05 am »

Same, same, same.

"Resolve" to GCM leaders translates to "repenting, and coming around to our side."
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2021, 02:50:10 pm »

X
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 03:22:57 pm »

Thank you for the invitation, but I'd like to offer a counter-invitation. Ask McCotter to come here instead. The advantages of this forum are:

1. Jim would be able to speak freely. The site owner here has a proven track record of supporting free speech, including speech that's highly critical of this forum and its regular members. In all the years I've been here, I can definitely remember only one post that was ever deleted, although there may have been others. But in any case, the post has to be really, really extreme to get deleted.

2. The regular forum members would also be able to speak freely. Jim would be unable to block any other member or to delete that member's comments and questions. (Just as we would be unable to block or delete McCotter.) All parties would have equal ability to express themselves.

2. This forum protects the anonymity of those who don't feel safe using their real names, which Facebook does not (not sure about YouTube).

3. The disadvantage of answering questions in a live format like Facebook or YouTube is that it's difficult to verify and fact-check those answers in real time. A forum like this gives people time to think, research, and compose thoughtful replies.

So how about it?

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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 03:26:00 pm »

By the way, Vince, the first time you came here, you accused us of spreading terrible lies about McCotter. At that time, I asked you to point out any specific lies.

I'm still waiting for your reply on that one.
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2021, 02:14:52 pm »

Let's start with ALL the things that were spread are lies.  Now you can prove me wrong by confronting Jim on  all the things that have been spread.  How about just getting this resolved once and for all.  Jim want's to field EVERY question.  Why not seek peace?  Why not?  What are you afraid of? 
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2021, 02:55:48 pm »

Let's start with ALL the things that were spread are lies.  Now you can prove me wrong by confronting Jim on  all the things that have been spread.  How about just getting this resolved once and for all.  Jim want's to field EVERY question.  Why not seek peace?  Why not?  What are you afraid of? 

No one here is going to fall for that bait. There are people on this forum who knew Jim personally, and others like me who were part of the movement back when McCotterism was at its height.

You've publicly accused this forum of lying about Jim, but you haven't provided a single example. You've refused to interact with us when we've responded to your posts.

Now if all you want to do is keep hurling insults at us and spamming the forum, you can probably do that. However, be aware that every time you post a link to McCotter's livefeed here, you're boosting this site in the search engine ratings. That means that when people search for McCotter, they're going to end up here, where they can read about what he really did back in the 70s and 80s. I for one think that's a good idea, but you may see it differently.

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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2021, 09:21:29 am »

Thank you for the invitation, but I'd like to offer a counter-invitation. Ask McCotter to come here instead. The advantages of this forum are:

1. Jim would be able to speak freely. The site owner here has a proven track record of supporting free speech, including speech that's highly critical of this forum and its regular members. In all the years I've been here, I can definitely remember only one post that was ever deleted, although there may have been others. But in any case, the post has to be really, really extreme to get deleted.

2. The regular forum members would also be able to speak freely. Jim would be unable to block any other member or to delete that member's comments and questions. (Just as we would be unable to block or delete McCotter.) All parties would have equal ability to express themselves.

2. This forum protects the anonymity of those who don't feel safe using their real names, which Facebook does not (not sure about YouTube).

3. The disadvantage of answering questions in a live format like Facebook or YouTube is that it's difficult to verify and fact-check those answers in real time. A forum like this gives people time to think, research, and compose thoughtful replies.

So how about it?



WHO is the site owner?  Are you serious about this?  Why would do this on here instead of live and in person on a podcast?  I suspect the owner has a very big big axe to grind, but what is his name?  My phone number is 404-405-6358.  I don't need to be anonymous.  I'm willing to get this out in the open.  I don't know what about Jim is bad or good.   I know him now and I know what I experienced as a young man in house churches that I was in where I heard of Jim, but honestly didn't rely on him or his teaching to move the message of Jesus forward.  Seven years I labored with saints from all over the east coast and only once saw Jim. You have ascribed blame on him for every mistake these very autonomous churches made, and personally, having been there, I don't see how you can make that happen, but I would absolutely like to hear Jim answer to these things you are bringing up.  It would be marvelous for the truth to come out.  Maybe even for peace to happen, and God to be glorified!
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Huldah
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2021, 10:58:26 am »

The rules of this forum, which you agreed to when you created your account, forbid the doxxing of other members. You can message the site admin by using his forum name, Puff of Purple Smoke. Unfortunately he doesn't check in here very often, but I'm sure he'll see your message eventually.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2021, 11:16:35 am »

By the way, Vince, the first time you came here, you accused us of spreading terrible lies about McCotter. At that time, I asked you to point out any specific lies.

I'm still waiting for your reply on that one.

Let's start with ALL the things that were spread are lies.  Now you can prove me wrong by confronting Jim on  all the things that have been spread.  How about just getting this resolved once and for all.  Jim want's to field EVERY question.  Why not seek peace?  Why not?  What are you afraid of?  
(bold emphasis mine)


There can be no good dialogue with one that isn’t honest.  To say “All the things that were spread are lies” is to invalidate every experience of victims here of spiritual abuse under the teaching and practice of Jim McCotter or his disciples.  One can’t possibly refute all these claims with no evidence.  I will not consider as evidence the words of a dishonest, fraudulent, and sinfully authoritarian “teacher” claiming to “follow God” or his deliberately blind followers.  

One that has no sincere intention of genuinely and remorsefully apologizing first and foremost as being guilty of long-standing and widespread grave spiritual abuse has no biblical right to carry on in “business as usual” as a so-called Christian Leader.  Secondly, he would have to remove himself as a “teacher” of God’s Word.  Those are the only things I’d be willing to hear to from McCotter.



“An appalling and horrible thing has happened . . . the prophets prophesy falsely, and rule on their own authority...”     (NASB) Jer. 5:30-31


“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.”    
 (NIV) 1 Tim. 5:19-21


« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 12:26:03 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2021, 02:17:36 pm »

By the way, Vince, the first time you came here, you accused us of spreading terrible lies about McCotter. At that time, I asked you to point out any specific lies.

I'm still waiting for your reply on that one.

Let's start with ALL the things that were spread are lies.  Now you can prove me wrong by confronting Jim on  all the things that have been spread.  How about just getting this resolved once and for all.  Jim want's to field EVERY question.  Why not seek peace?  Why not?  What are you afraid of?  
(bold emphasis mine)


There can be no good dialogue with one that isn’t honest.  To say “All the things that were spread are lies” is to invalidate every experience of victims here of spiritual abuse under the teaching and practice of Jim McCotter or his disciples.  One can’t possibly refute all these claims with no evidence.  I will not consider as evidence the words of a dishonest, fraudulent, and sinfully authoritarian “teacher” claiming to “follow God” or his deliberately blind followers.  

One that has no sincere intention of genuinely and remorsefully apologizing first and foremost as being guilty of long-standing and widespread grave spiritual abuse has no biblical right to carry on in “business as usual” as a so-called Christian Leader.  Secondly, he would have to remove himself as a “teacher” of God’s Word.  Those are the only things I’d be willing to hear to from McCotter.



“An appalling and horrible thing has happened . . . the prophets prophesy falsely, and rule on their own authority...”     (NASB) Jer. 5:30-31


“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.”    
 (NIV) 1 Tim. 5:19-21



What a clever way to get out of confronting someone.  Are you honest?  How would I know?  You probably are, but I've never had a problem confronting Jim with all the stuff I've read about him.  He's never once hesitated to talk about everything that's been brought up.  If he did, I'd consider it a MAJOR red flag.  In other words, if he was avoiding discussion of past issues, LIKE YOU ARE, then I'd have trouble trusting his character.  I have trouble trusting your character because you won't say face to face with a person what you are so willing to tell others about him.  Quite frankly, since you clearly have a bible, I certainly don't think I need to point out ALL the MANY verses that warn against being around gossips and slanderers and revilers. 

How about we simply stop accusing and have a much needed conversation!  TEXT me any questions you'd like Jim to address to 404-405-6358!  That would be great!
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