IMPOSTERS!!!

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[Janet Easson Martin]

"Evil people and imposters will become worse, deceiving and being deceived"        _{2Timothy 3:13}

Listen to what God is saying to you and to the churches through Beth Moores's teaching today and her series on SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT.  She talks about how deception is not something you can see with you eyes but with the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures.  It is God's very personal prompting and warning to us individually through His Spirit that reveals to us things only the Spirit can discern.  Watch her teaching today, September 21st, 2011 on Life Today as she communicates how we are to LISTEN TO THE SPIRIT especially in matters of deception.  God want us to learn to discern for ourselves by His Helper to follow him or go to someone else who is filled with the Spirit and has a operating knowledge of the scriptures and tell them what you are sensing, or feeling.  Today's broadcast as well as all Beth's teachings on www.LifeToday.org can be downloaded instantly for you to watch anytime.  I have given an alternate link because they are updating the Wednesdays with Beth page (on LifeToday).  Below is the link:

http://www.lightsource.com/ministry/wednesdays-with-beth/

Love to Personally Follow The Good Sheperd with You,

Janet Easson Martin

[lone gone]

Who is Beth Moore and why should I listen to her instead of anyone else?!?!!?!

[Linda]

Beth Moore has a huge Bible Study ministry for women. She is based out of Texas. 50 something. Baptist. Her teaching is pretty basic and she is a gifted speaker. I think Janet was just offering a link that was helpful to her because she thought it might help others reading this. Obviously, none of us are in a position of wanting to make anyone our master anymore. Been there, done that, post on forums about it!

[MidnightRider]

Maybe this will explain it:
http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2010/05/3008/

My wife does a lot of the Beth Moore Bible studies. She also believes that Beth loves her.   

[Linda]

Not sure what this has to do with Janet's comment which seemed to be a sincere desire to share a link to a teaching that resonated with her. Janet did not imply that you should listen to Beth above anyone else.

I guess you were just being sarcastic and I missed it in your first comment. Not everyone knows who Beth is. She's a big fish in a small pond. I thought you were sincerely wanting to know.

She's just a person with an ability to communicate and a few dozen scholars and researchers at Lifeway who help her with her theological research. In addition, she's a gifted communicator.

I've done a dozen or so of her studies. They can wear on a person, but generally they aren't bad. (I've never heard her tell anyone to give the controls of their lives over to their pastors, for example.) Jon Acuff can wear on a person, as well. I don't agree with everything he says, but I do enjoy some of his thoughts. That's why I follow both him and Beth on Twitter and read both their blogs.

[lone gone]

Not sure who "your" comments are directed at.  I honestly do not know who Beth Moore is.... nor why she is so good/important/gifted.

Whenever someone endorses something or someone with such enthusiasm my first response is to question it.... especially when someone states.... Listen to what God is saying to you and to the churches through Beth Moores's teaching today

I have heard this same type of statement from both the worst and the best teachers.  If there is no context for WHY I should devote some of my time here on earth listening to one person or another, I then go back to the intent of the person who tells me to listen to their favorite pet teacher. 

I already have my own favorite pet teachers.  I hear God's message to me through them. How many more do I need? Why change who I am listening to?

If Janet Easson Martin was encouraged by Beth Moore's message, let her tell us about it herself. I am not going to run out "into the wilderness" to listen to another messenger just because someone likes them.

[AgathaL'Orange]

Good! Then don't.  It's just something she was sharing.  And you are being a little rude.  Janet seems like a nice and enthusiastic person who sincerely cares for other people.  One great skill for everyone who uses the internet is to know what information pertains to them and what doesn't.  I don't think this information really pertains to you, LG or me!  I think that we SHOULD use our eyes and critical thinking skills.  I think depending on an internal message from the Holy Spirit would include evaluating truth through a critical lens.  So, right on the surface I don't agree with the main idea of the link as posted.  However, I don't feel the need to criticize people's need to share.  Lots of people share here on end time teachings.  I couldn't care LESS about end time teachings.  I think the whole point of end time teachings is that they are a mystery, a puzzle, a prophecy ( and also that a lot aren't so end time as people think).  But I don't say, "HO HUM, another meaningless discussion!"  Because I don't want to be mean and rude.  And also, my mind glazes over whenever anyone posts a huge passage of scripture, a platitude, a Greek word study or anything else.  So, I just skip skip skip.

But yes, I don't think God is saying anything to me through Beth Moore's teachings.   
It's okay if you don't want to look at someone's link.  But you can be nice about it.  Don't you think?

[lone gone]

Who is Beth Moore and why should I listen to her instead of anyone else?!?!!?!

I asked a simple question and you think I am being rude?


 It could have been answered without judgement as to the intent. There was no intent of snarkiness,rudeness, or criticism but someone thought there was..... The rudeness, in my opinion, is exhibited by a leap to judgement without asking any clarifying questions.

Marriage taught me that.

[AgathaL'Orange]

I can see that you could sincerely have meant that as a question.  I think the exclamation marks and confused question marks look aggressive.  It's just an internet thing.  Some people are more abrupt, some are more enthusiastic.   

Peace.

[Linda]

Here is my last comment on this topic. I'll start by saying I was reading it on my iPhone and didn't notice that MR has posted that comment. I thought it was you, LG. So, my mistake.
Sorry for the confusion.

Perhaps you didn't mean to be rude, but Janet was not saying that you should listen to Beth Moore's teaching "instead of anyone else". I think that's why your comment came across in writing as a kind of needless attack on Janet. This message helped her clarify some thoughts and she thought it might help others. Your comment came across in writing as a rebuke. As I understand it, you didn't mean it to be that, so thanks for clarifying.

I haven't had a chance to watch Beth's message yet. But, I kind of think I should now!

Sometimes people hear something and appreciate the way the speaker said it. It makes perfect sense to refer others to someone who communicates a thought in a manner that is clear and concise.

Here is a Beth Moore example from my experience. I did her Daniel study last Winter. It was fascinating. She clearly explained her view on the 70 weeks prophecy. She made it plain that this was just her take (and the take of the theologians and authors that she quoted throughout the study) and by all means people shouldn't just listen to her, but study and draw their own conclusions. I found her explanation fascinating and came home and tried to explain it to my husband. It took a long time and I had to stop to remember a lot of history. It would have been clearer and probably have made more sense had I just played the DVD (I would have done that, but I didn't own it). What it wouldn't have meant was that I thought Beth was the only teacher to listen to above all others or that I was incapable of having a thought of my own. It merely would have been that she had an interesting thought I wanted to share and she was a better communicator.

Done with the discussion on why we should or should not listen to Beth or anyone else. If I comment on this thread again, it will be about the actual content of what Beth said (which I haven't listened to yet).

[EverAStudent]

my mind glazes over whenever anyone posts a huge passage of scripture, a platitude, a Greek word study or anything else.

Argggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!  I am going to take that personally Agatha!   

LOL

I think that we SHOULD use our eyes and critical thinking skills.  I think depending on an internal message from the Holy Spirit would include evaluating truth through a critical lens.  So, right on the surface I don't agree with the main idea of the link as posted.  However, I don't feel the need to criticize people's need to share.

I have earned for myself more criticism than I ever care to think about by having come out of the closet and admitting that I am not a mystic and admitting that the Holy Spirit does not deliver to me daily prophetic messages....sigh.....so, Agatha, I can see the core of your comment and appreciate it. 

[Janet Easson Martin]

Hello Noble-Minded Friends,

I was so enthusiastic about what Beth Moore said on her program (this week) I wanted everyone affected by GCx past and present to hear it.  I should have more appropriately said "Listen to what I believe God is saying to us through this particular message by Beth Moore" on LifeToday; to people and churches who are participating in or been hurt by "spiritual" deception.  (She also includes other types of deception.)  Those who have done her Bible Studies or heard her speak understand she is not someone by any means who thinks she has a corner on the Truth as Linda so clearly pointed out.  However, well-respected christian leaders have said she is one of the most gifted communicators of God's Word in our day.  He has allowed her to open up (to probably millions of believers) the depth, beauty and glorious REAL riches of God's supernatural and ever-reliable Word to us.  God is using her gift, like others (some on The Book List), in the universal body of Christ to build them up and become mature.  

Not having heard her teaching before, you were wise to ask who she is and why should you listen to her.  You probably know the scripture that says the Bereans were more noble-minded because they examined the scriptures every day for themselves to see if what was being taught to them was really true (Acts 17:11); which Agatha reminded us to do.

I love this website because we can openly discuss these matters, unlike the GCx movement.  How do we investigate teaching and churches to see if what they are saying and doing is GOD'S TRUTH or their own half-truth?

It is really spiritually educating to study the Word of God with a special lens on characteristics of false teachers and false teaching.  Some of the things I have found are eye-opening and extremely helpful.  Below are just a few I have found:

• Builds up the brethren      vs.        Tears down the brethren

• Relies on conviction of Holy Spirit to change       vs.        Relies on man-imposed guilt and condemnation to manipulate change

• Breaks tradition of men to keep God's command      vs.        Breaks God's command to keep tradition of men  (Esp. Honoring Parents)

• God's workmanship: do unique & individual good works that God prepared   vs.      GCx's workmanship: do same good works that support the plan prepared by GCx often for its own exultation

• Dependence upon God's Promises for growing in grace      vs.      Dependence upon GCx approved works for "growing in righteousness"

I will post the scripture references for these soon so others can look at them for themselves.  It's late here in Maryland.

 

These characteristics are really IMPORTANT.  The Word of God describes what True Teachin g Is  vs.  what False Teaching Is so that we are not deceived and led astray from PURE devotion TO CHRIST as believers.  I surely was for years in GCx.

Sitting at Jesus' Feet with You to Experience His Presence in Truth,

Janet

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[lone gone]

OK everyone,  for future reference.

!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!   means  bewilderment (surprised questioning) when I type it.

Tim Taylor on Home Improvement would say " Huhhh?"

I didn't mean that someone should listen to Beth Moore to the exclusion of anyone else,  but rather, why should I consider listening to her in the first place.

Peace back at you.

[Linda]

Janet,

Just finished listening to that message. Very interesting. I had never really noticed that word "impostors" before in 2 Timothy. Evil people and impostors. Interesting. I've always chosen to believe that many GC leaders who teach things contrary to Scripture are not "evil", but deceived. I'm looking at that verse and wondering if there are two categories. 1. Evil people who actually deceive on purpose and 2) Impostors who are deceived and therefore mislead others because they have believed a lie.

This has nothing to do with anything, but every time I see the word "impostor", I think of Nancy Drew. There's always an "impostor" who causes trouble!

Also, I thought your list comparing true and false teaching was great. Years ago, I had seen one similar to that on a site for people getting out of the Boston Movement and had forgotten about it. Great points.

Thanks for posting and thanks for the link.

[Janet Easson Martin]

Hey Linda,   (Updated 10/1)

How interesting.  My pastor said the same thing, that both evil men and imposters take part in spiritual abuse.  Some deceiving and some being deceived.  I agree there are people in GCx pushing these false teachings who are deceived because I used to be one of them.  I misled people out of ignorance, being deceived by GCx teachings and wanting to be approved by men.  I was keeping the traditions of GCx due to the fact that I had been starved of true biblical foundations; and real biblical knowledge to truly grow in faith instead of a checklist of "righteousness" to take pride in.  I tried to fake super spirituality and superiority and looked down on others who weren't following the checklist; and actually treated them as though they weren't worthy of my time.  What a 'pharisee' I was!  I was imitating the behavior I saw in those who had a GCx reputation of being spiritual.   So, even though I knew Christ, I was probably acting as an imposter because  most of what I said and did was NOT FROM THE HEART but to build a certain IMPRESSION.  In essence, I was not inside what I may have appeared to be on the outside.  I would guess many in GCX are squeezed into this to hold onto some self-worth.  In fact, a highly regarded leading sister once admitted to me "I'm pretty good at FAKING IT."   We have a innate need to possess some matter of self-esteem.  Later when I left, I asked God to run me into these people I hurt so needlessly so I could genuinely apologize, and he began doing just that.

There definitely was a "class" system and I didn't want to be near the bottom.  It was a matter of scurrying up the ladder to gain my self-esteem which was continually being stripped away.  I was on such a desparate treadmill of trying to be worthy enough to those in man-made authority "over" me (translating into what God thought of me of course) I didn't have any energy or confidence left to find out any different.  But mostly I participated in this veiled deception because I WAS AFRAID.  Fear was actually the driving force to stay on the treadmill.  We were told continually in word and deed what would likely happen to you if you did not follow their higher revelation of this "Truly dedicated New Testament Life of More Sacrifice". "Sin and backsliding awaited, destruction and possibly premature death hovered, and not in the least Eternity was at stake!"  Such TRAGIC manipulation using half-truths with lies to keep us in their ranks.  That's, I think, why Paul says to those who are under false teaching "Where has all your joy gone?"  Who can have true unhindered joy in an environment of continual condemnation?  That IS what happens (according to the New Testament) when we put ourselves under a checklist, under The Law.  When I finally let God open my eyes to HIS TRUTH (from many Christian sources outside GCx) I began relaxing and enjoying life.  It was for sure was a process, but I did FEEL RELIEF amongst the early struggle of weaning myself from The Law.  Because this was ingrained over 10 years, I still have to let God peel away remnant layers of condemnation.  

Being out of the environment of half-truths and lies, and studying the Word through many different bible teachers, and bible studies, personal time with God, involvement in Healty Christian Churches, and learning with continual stumbling to walk in the Spirit and believe (I ask for God's help when I am unbelieving) has had a great healing effect on me.  If I watch or listen to the founders' "teaching" now I can hear with unstopped ears and see with unblinded eyes and feel with the gentle Spirit (he has made to dwell in each of us) the evil, the bitter envy, the hatred, the self-exalting.  I can now see the OPPRESSIVE DECEPTION.

Janet

[AgathaL'Orange]

 If I watch or listen to the founders' "teaching" now I can hear with unstopped ears and see with unblinded eyes and feel with the gentle Spirit (he has made to dwell in each of us) the evil, the jealousy, the hatred, the self-exalting.  I can now see the OPPRESSIVE DECEPTION.

Janet

Isn't that interesting?  I can see it too.  Sometimes it seems as though they have deceived themselves though also.  Like they really believe it now, but didn't at first.

[Linda]

If I watch or listen to the founders' "teaching" now I can hear with unstopped ears and see with unblinded eyes and feel with the gentle Spirit (he has made to dwell in each of us) the evil, the jealousy, the hatred, the self-exalting.  I can now see the OPPRESSIVE DECEPTION.

Totally agree, also.

I think knowing that I was deceived for so long, gives me a measure of compassion for those still in GC. They sincerely can not see they have been deceived. Once you leave, after time, so much becomes clear. Embarrassingly clear. Frighteningly clear. Thank you, Lord, for opening my eyes and getting me out of there clear.

The "self-exalting" is an interesting thing. It doesn't always take the form of personal pride, but the corporate pride in GC is astonishing and undeniable. Join US. Stay with US for life. THIS MOVEMENT is doing great things for God. This is a proud bunch!

It is interesting that PRIDE is #1 on the statement of error.

I. PRIDEFUL ATTITUDE We confess that, especially in our early years, we had a prideful attitude about the ways we believed that our churches were distinctive from others in the body of Christ. And while, to the best of our knowledge, it was never expressly taught that we were better than other churches, it was very much implied by our too narrow view of how God accomplishes His purposes through the church. For many years, we believed that because we were committed to reaching the world with the Gospel in the way we believed was mandated by the Scriptures and that had been virtually abandoned by most Christians since the first century, that God would use our churches in a special way. This allowed a prideful attitude to develop toward other churches, para‑churches, and organizations, a sinful attitude we deeply regret. It is difficult to know just how pervasive this attitude was, but we believe it was common, especially during the early years of our history. Our pride manifested itself in a variety of ways, which we now turn to.

I honestly don't think they have changed. Not only do they seem to believe they have something special, they pretty much teach it outright.

[Janet Easson Martin]

I have updated one post above which hopefully is helpful.

Janet

[o2knowthetruth]

Hello,

And thank you all for posting on this website (both the positive & negative).  I was a member of the Cornerstone GCI church in Kansas City back in the 1980's and was present during most of the upheaval caused by Jim McCotter and the leadership caught up in his actions & beliefs.  I was present for the Ex-Comminuication of Gary Henke and remember the meeting like it was yesterday.  Though I was only in my early 20s the effects of the GCI movement had left a profound and often painful legacy on my heart.   

I have been aware of this website for several years but have only recently started down the rabbit hole of reading your postings.  After the my first few minutes of reading people's personal and often heartfelt thoughts and experiences I had to stop; I couldn't breath.  I found myself transported back almost 30 years ago, I remember the "biblical teachings" twisted coerce followers into submission, but mostly I remember the division and the hurt caused by "religious" leaders who thought they had the inside track to the knowledge & heart of God. 

The reason for my posting on this website now, after all these years is simple: I am writing a book about my experience with GCI, how my childhood trauma led me to a church such as GCI, my years being mistrusting of "spiritual leadership," the effects on my personal relationships and ultimately the effect on my relationship with God.  I would appreciate hearing from anyone who was a member of the GCI (other it's other names) Church.  I would like to know your story, our stories: Jesus once said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.  Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 

Please feel free to post your messages on this site or I have made my email address available in the PROFILE section of this website.  Thank you again, for all who take the time to share their stories, we are the fabric of God's great creation.  No one is "the least of these," even when we don't see eye to eye.

[MidnightRider]

o2,

I will buy a copy of your book and read it.