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Author Topic: Significant Error in Apostleship video  (Read 8419 times)
AgathaL'Orange
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« on: February 04, 2009, 02:59:12 pm »

Did anyone else notice that JM said that prior to the reformation if you were a Christian you were a Catholic... specifically Roman Catholic?  That simply is NOT true.  Wasn't he aware of Eastern Orthodoxy?  This is the kind of thing that a simple overview of Christian history in college or seminary would clear up. 
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Linda
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 03:54:18 pm »

Yes!

I swore I heard it, told Terry about it, and then couldn't find it again so thought I must have heard wrong. It was early on, wasn't it? I'm glad you heard it also. Even those of us who haven't been to seminary know better than that! But, you are correct, a seminary church history class would have cleared up that bit of misinformation.
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lone gone
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 05:52:33 pm »

Jim's grasp of history left much to be desired. I often heard him preach on campus at Iowa State and he made several mistakes regarding history. I think it was one of his blind spots. Feel free to comment on how that blind spot left him wide open for some major mistakes of a spiritual nature!

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EverAStudent
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 06:29:03 pm »

Quote from: lone gone
Jim's grasp of history left much to be desired. I often heard him preach on campus at Iowa State and he made several mistakes regarding history.

And yet, as glaring as his poor handling of documented history may be, his handling of Scripture is so much worse.  Virtually none of his "qualifications" for apostleship are even in the Bible, yet, he denies that the valid list in Acts 1, from the very mouths of the apostles, even exists.  How can they ever hope to be a "New Testatment" church denomination when they do not even desire to acknowledge or implement the New Testament?
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 08:40:04 pm »

Did anyone else notice that JM said that prior to the reformation if you were a Christian you were a Catholic... specifically Roman Catholic?  That simply is NOT true.  Wasn't he aware of Eastern Orthodoxy? 
Or the Coptic Church.

Quote
This is the kind of thing that a simple overview of Christian history in college or seminary would clear up. 
Or even reading a book.
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lone gone
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 07:35:27 am »

Just to be clear..... I meant secular history, not just church history. He could put things into the wrong century. I am racking my brain to remember one of the incidents. I was so embarrassed for him as it was a doozy of a blunder. Anyway, he'd probably say that the fact was important and that the date wasn't important.

I decided to quit watching the whole thing..... I wasn't having flashbacks or anything, but I did sense that the material was no different than the book and noting new was to be gained.

Jim is an expert at behaving in an overtly spiritual manner.... He could ACT like a leader and a saint when controlling the stage. His downfall came when he was confronted with opposition. That is when he lost his cool. Early in the tape he promises to answer questions at the end.... if there is time.  There was never time, he always managed to use it all up by multiplying his words.

I believe that his unconscious actions showed what his thought process was. "If they don't agree with me, it must be because they don't understand. I must continue to talk until they understand. If they still don't agree with me, after all that I have said, then they are resisting the truth and must be dealt with accordingly."

Witness to this is in the transcript of the excommunication in Mo.

I have seen this dynamic in other people, not just in spiritual leaders. One of my old bosses got fired for this type of behavior.
 
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Genevieve
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 05:19:42 pm »

This video was absolutely crazy! First, he downplays the word "apostle." "It's just the Latin word for messenger" (or something like that). But then he says that the reason other Christians weren't reaching the world was because they didn't believe in apostles. Hmm, so the world isn't reached because of semantics? Interesting theory, Jimmy. I think this was basically the first hour of the talk.

I liked that the number of times the word apostle was used was an argument for its current relevance. Just throw numbers at them to make yourself look logical. This is why a college education is useful. I had to wonder if anyone sitting there was scratching their heads at his argument or if any mental strength was stripped away by this 2 and a half hour talk without any breaks!!!

Then, I lost my patience and missed when he anointed himself an apostle. Did he do that by the end? I'm sure when he did, the word "apostle" meant much more than simply a messenger!

Oh, and I noticed the 1991 apology didn't ever apologize for this ridiculous teaching.

Bob LaForge gave a really good critique. I had to laugh at the response he got from Jim, basically "We disagree. If you can't keep quiet, then leave." This after a very carefully thought out 21-page study!!

Finally, he reminded me so much of the way Rick Whitney speaks. Kind of folksy but also stern. You could tell this guy took himself VERY seriously. What a charlatan.
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