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Author Topic: What is the real history of this movement?  (Read 6341 times)
Lost Creature
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« on: November 03, 2018, 07:43:11 am »

Growing up, I've heard stories from my leaders about the times when they were on mission for God and how exhilarating it was to be a part of that movement.
But whenever I ask about McCotter or other issues that came up along the way, many of them turn grim and don't seem to want to talk about it...

What is the story of how this movement came about and became what it is today?
I want to hear both the good and the bad...the truth...nothing more and nothing less...

Also, if there are links, can they be shared too?
Thank you.

I care too much about the people in my GCX church for them not to truly understand how their church came to be.
If we don't know our history, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes that are made...
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 08:41:46 am »

Lost Creature,

Welcome!  This site has a wealth of resources to answer that question.  On the home page is a section named ‘External Links’ found in the left hand column. You can click on any of those.  Below is the description and the link is at the bottom.

GCx Web Library
Resources on the Great Commission church movement

(aka Great Commission Churches, Great Commission Ministries, Great Commission Association of Churches, Great Commission International, Great Commission Students, The Blitz Movement)

Top Ten
A list of ten resources designed to give an overview of the most important documents in this library.

http://gcxweb.org/TopTen.aspx

On this GCM Warning Forum are an abundance of personal stories of the abuses practiced against its members.  Posters share both the bad and the good.  What is of special importance about these stories is that many of them come from recent years where the bad continues to be repeated and has really never left.  Most of this abuse is kept secret in GCx churches by oppression and slander of the members who speak the truth.  So, you ask an EXCELLENT question.

Grateful for Wise Investigators,
Janet





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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Free in Christ
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 09:39:41 am »

Lost Creature, I really appreciate your attitude and spirit that you have displayed here and elsewhere. I think for me the most helpful thing to read was #2 on this Top Ten list. (I had previously read the 1991 error statement as a member.) Marching to Zion is long and it is one man's perspective, but it was very eye opening to me. Even if you decide to stay in the movement long term, it will help you to notice and root out negative patterns in the church. Namely authoritarianism. I don't believe the leaders still use the tactics of McCotter (who was still held in high regard when I was there in the 90s and 2000s), but the underlying authoritarianism still exists (I have several family members who are pastors with the group so I speak from that perspective.)
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Lost Creature
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2018, 07:34:12 pm »

Thank you for sharing these resources...It's astonishing looking back through these decades of histories and seeing the same issues pop up over and over and over again...

It feels like we doomed to repeat our history until we truly understand it...

Is there a way I could present this information to my friends at my current GCX church in a way that wouldn't come across as an attack, but as an open door?
I want them to know the truth, see it for themselves, and understand why these concerns matter in the context of history?

Again, thank you...Maybe there is hope for this movement if it's members take their own look into it's history...
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Cult Proof
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 12:29:57 pm »

Broken Trust by Remy Diederich is a very compassionate and well balanced book about church abuse.  Much of the book is written to help people in situations like yours to wade through what to do, if anything.

I haven’t read Sharing Jesus with the Cults but it is a newer book and it directly calls out gcx for its use of mind control.  I can’t speak for other parts of the country but in MN and WI mind control and abusive leadership is rampant and extreme.

May God bless you and help you, He is the good shepherd. 
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Free in Christ
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 05:30:52 pm »

Lost Creature, I think the healthiest thing to do is discuss it. I would start with your own experiences and how they have impacted you, rather than starting by mentioning this site, which would make people defensive. I know that many people from inside the church have tried to discuss issues and ultimately been asked to leave. (I personally know people who experienced this.) But I think everyone deserves the opportunity. It might be new information for those in your circle. If you are from a family who is fairly deep in, your words might have even more impact. Once you have explained what you have experienced personally, you could feel if the situation is right to mention something like the error paper, or if that is better saved for a later conversation.
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Free in Christ
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 05:33:54 pm »

P.S. I applaud your willingness to engage the really important issues.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2018, 12:36:13 pm »

...
Is there a way I could present this information to my friends at my current GCX church in a way that wouldn't come across as an attack, but as an open door?
I want them to know the truth, see it for themselves, and understand why these concerns matter in the context of history?
...

Maybe you could start with the Apology Letter, since it is a GCx document.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2018, 12:38:41 pm »

Marching to Zion (one of the items in the Top Ten list) is helpful in learning the history of GCx.
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Lost Creature
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2018, 06:29:36 pm »

...
Is there a way I could present this information to my friends at my current GCX church in a way that wouldn't come across as an attack, but as an open door?
I want them to know the truth, see it for themselves, and understand why these concerns matter in the context of history?
...

Maybe you could start with the Apology Letter, since it is a GCx document.

Thank you for the suggestion.

One thing that I have grown convicted of is that in order for history not to repeat itself, the members (and especially the emerging leaders) need to understand what happened so we don't go down that path again.

I have spoken with a mentor of mine within the church about something that I feel would be a big step about this:
That the leaders who attend GCLI become familiar with the apology letter of 91' (at the very least) so that they can watch out for signs of these things happening again amongst us.

I was surprised when he said that it would be a good idea, though, i may need to bring it up a few more times before it becomes something.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2018, 09:35:22 pm »

...
Is there a way I could present this information to my friends at my current GCX church in a way that wouldn't come across as an attack, but as an open door?
I want them to know the truth, see it for themselves, and understand why these concerns matter in the context of history?
...

Maybe you could start with the Apology Letter, since it is a GCx document.



Thank you for the suggestion.

One thing that I have grown convicted of is that in order for history not to repeat itself, the members (and especially the emerging leaders) need to understand what happened so we don't go down that path again.

I have spoken with a mentor of mine within the church about something that I feel would be a big step about this:
That the leaders who attend GCLI become familiar with the apology letter of 91' (at the very least) so that they can watch out for signs of these things happening again amongst us.

I was surprised when he said that it would be a good idea, though, i may need to bring it up a few more times before it becomes something.

Yes, I would think that practically, if you want to have an influence on all of GCx you would need to contact the decision makers to have a nation wide impact. For instance, you might want to write an email to John Hopler about that. It's kind of like Walmart, if I think it would be best to put the electronics like TVs, Computers, etc... next to the cashiers, if I said it to a cashier, it probably wouldn't go anywhere. She could pass it on, to someone, who could pass it on, etc.... but it probably wouldn't make a big difference. If I told the store manager, I would make more of an impact, but even then, it would probably need to be addressed in the headquarters. (Like in McDonalds, fries are always on the left side)  So, you would write an email to John Hopler or so. If you really want to have an impact, write a certified letter. That generally causes people to notice. Or write an email and cc a bunch of others. I did that with another Christian organization, that didn't answer my questions. Within 15 minutes, all sorts of things happened and I had gotten replies. :-)
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 09:37:50 pm by PietWowo » Logged
PietWowo
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2018, 09:40:49 pm »

Lost Creature, I think the healthiest thing to do is discuss it. I would start with your own experiences and how they have impacted you, rather than starting by mentioning this site, which would make people defensive. I know that many people from inside the church have tried to discuss issues and ultimately been asked to leave. (I personally know people who experienced this.) But I think everyone deserves the opportunity. It might be new information for those in your circle. If you are from a family who is fairly deep in, your words might have even more impact. Once you have explained what you have experienced personally, you could feel if the situation is right to mention something like the error paper, or if that is better saved for a later conversation.

I think there are some people on this sight that are so against GCx, that they themselves are abusive, calling names. I just saw one topic here where someone here for just offending another user and he/she wrote about 10 posts just being abusive to the other user. That's what causes this forum to sometimes have a bad reputation.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2020, 03:40:07 pm »

If you want to know the amazing story about how the movement started, why not ask one of the ones who started it?  Jim McCotter is far from what he is accused of on here.  The lies are terrible and blatently false.  Jim isn't hiding!  He's on facebook live every weekday at 4pm EST!  Go to facebook and search @jimmccotterlive to watch and participate.  You can even get right online with him and ask whatever you want if you are curious!  If you don't want to do that, then why not IM him on facebook!  He'll answer you and you'll see that, even at 75 years old, Jim is still laboring with all his heart to reach the world with the gospel! 

It's time to stop all the lies and liars and unite to make a difference for the Kingdom!
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Breaking The Habit
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2021, 06:15:22 pm »

If you want to know the amazing story about how the movement started, why not ask one of the ones who started it?  Jim McCotter is far from what he is accused of on here.  The lies are terrible and blatently false.  Jim isn't hiding!  He's on facebook live every weekday at 4pm EST!  Go to facebook and search @jimmccotterlive to watch and participate.  You can even get right online with him and ask whatever you want if you are curious!  If you don't want to do that, then why not IM him on facebook!  He'll answer you and you'll see that, even at 75 years old, Jim is still laboring with all his heart to reach the world with the gospel! 

It's time to stop all the lies and liars and unite to make a difference for the Kingdom!

Vince, you might want to disclose that work for Jim. Do you seriously think the above paragraph is going to magically erase all the abuse so many of us have endured for DECADES? The legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse.

And trust me, we can post a list of the men and women he has stolen money from that would still love to have a chat. If he's up for it.
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margaret
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2021, 07:29:21 am »

Vince, I'm curious how long you've known, and worked closely, with Jim.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2021, 02:49:30 pm »

Hi!  For anyone who would like to actually HEAR Jim McCotter address all these accusations, Jim is willing to take LIVE questions on his weekday podcasts every Friday.  It's time to actually "put your money where your mouth is".  Tomorrow and every Friday at 4pm, you can log onto the podcast on facebook or on his youtube channel...

He's ready and willing to finally address any and all accusations and questions!  You ready to ask?  You can just comment your question, or actually come on live with Jim!  Either way, it's time for the whole truth to come out!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_-a-MOV_qjSKEpLcx9pR3g

https://www.facebook.com/JimMcCotterLIVE
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Linda
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2021, 11:59:21 am »

Quote from: Breaking the Habit
Vince, you might want to disclose that work for Jim. Do you seriously think the above paragraph is going to magically erase all the abuse so many of us have endured for DECADES? The legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse.

And trust me, we can post a list of the men and women he has stolen money from that would still love to have a chat. If he's up for it.

I missed your post. First of all, welcome and I'm sorry for all the abuse you endured.

I am curious about what you mean when you say that "the legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse", what do you mean? Since GCC/GCM no longer exist on paper, how are they leveling up? Through name changes?
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2021, 09:12:46 am »

If you want to know the amazing story about how the movement started, why not ask one of the ones who started it?  Jim McCotter is far from what he is accused of on here.  The lies are terrible and blatently false.  Jim isn't hiding!  He's on facebook live every weekday at 4pm EST!  Go to facebook and search @jimmccotterlive to watch and participate.  You can even get right online with him and ask whatever you want if you are curious!  If you don't want to do that, then why not IM him on facebook!  He'll answer you and you'll see that, even at 75 years old, Jim is still laboring with all his heart to reach the world with the gospel! 

It's time to stop all the lies and liars and unite to make a difference for the Kingdom!

Vince, you might want to disclose that work for Jim. Do you seriously think the above paragraph is going to magically erase all the abuse so many of us have endured for DECADES? The legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse.

I do not work for Jim, but thanks for asking.  I'm not on any payroll.  I am a leader in a church in Atlanta, that was here long before I connected with Jim this past August.  However, come on and ask any questions you want to on Friday at 4pm.  You can text me the questions/accusations you want an explanation for and I'll put them on the show and force Jim to answer them.  You can text them to me at 404-405-6358.  Time to let the rubber meet the road.  Let's find out what is true and what is not, and set the record straight once and for all.  What is preventing you?

And trust me, we can post a list of the men and women he has stolen money from that would still love to have a chat. If he's up for it.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2021, 09:29:33 am »

If you want to know the amazing story about how the movement started, why not ask one of the ones who started it?  Jim McCotter is far from what he is accused of on here.  The lies are terrible and blatently false.  Jim isn't hiding!  He's on facebook live every weekday at 4pm EST!  Go to facebook and search @jimmccotterlive to watch and participate.  You can even get right online with him and ask whatever you want if you are curious!  If you don't want to do that, then why not IM him on facebook!  He'll answer you and you'll see that, even at 75 years old, Jim is still laboring with all his heart to reach the world with the gospel! 

It's time to stop all the lies and liars and unite to make a difference for the Kingdom!

Vince, you might want to disclose that work for Jim. Do you seriously think the above paragraph is going to magically erase all the abuse so many of us have endured for DECADES? The legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse.

And trust me, we can post a list of the men and women he has stolen money from that would still love to have a chat. If he's up for it.

YES!  Let's do that!  Let's have that list available, or even those who had it happen to them, come on the show face to face to accuse Jim!  Or you can just text me whatever your best examples of these actions are and I'll make sure those are addressed on Friday!  That would be awesome!  I want the truth to be told!  Let's do this!  By the way, I don't work for  Jim.  I'm in Atlanta, and am active in a church here that began long before I reconnected with Jim this past August.  Feel free to call me or text me at 404-405-6358.  Come and visit us here in Atlanta.  We are very much like the house churches from the late seventies.  Jim is NOT our leader, lol.  He is, however, a good brother who we have been able to send a team down to in order to build up the church he's involved in.  We're always willing to help any gathering by sending teams to witness to neighborhoods, or start bible studies, etc.  We're busy with the gospel.  We do produce Jim's podcast.  We believe and have seen that there are those who are still interested in organic church and we are looking for opportunities to learn and help them. 

I hope you will text me any questions you'd like him to address.  I think it would be important to resolve these issues!  Bring out the truth! 

https://www.facebook.com/JimMcCotterLIVE
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PietWowo
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2021, 08:21:04 pm »

If you want to know the amazing story about how the movement started, why not ask one of the ones who started it?  Jim McCotter is far from what he is accused of on here.  The lies are terrible and blatently false.  Jim isn't hiding!  He's on facebook live every weekday at 4pm EST!  Go to facebook and search @jimmccotterlive to watch and participate.  You can even get right online with him and ask whatever you want if you are curious!  If you don't want to do that, then why not IM him on facebook!  He'll answer you and you'll see that, even at 75 years old, Jim is still laboring with all his heart to reach the world with the gospel! 

It's time to stop all the lies and liars and unite to make a difference for the Kingdom!

Vince, you might want to disclose that work for Jim. Do you seriously think the above paragraph is going to magically erase all the abuse so many of us have endured for DECADES? The legalism and complete control that existed in GCC/GCM has literally just leveled up and gotten even worse.

And trust me, we can post a list of the men and women he has stolen money from that would still love to have a chat. If he's up for it.

YES!  Let's do that!  Let's have that list available, or even those who had it happen to them, come on the show face to face to accuse Jim!  Or you can just text me whatever your best examples of these actions are and I'll make sure those are addressed on Friday!  That would be awesome!  I want the truth to be told!  Let's do this!  By the way, I don't work for  Jim.  I'm in Atlanta, and am active in a church here that began long before I reconnected with Jim this past August.  Feel free to call me or text me at 404-405-6358.  Come and visit us here in Atlanta.  We are very much like the house churches from the late seventies.  Jim is NOT our leader, lol.  He is, however, a good brother who we have been able to send a team down to in order to build up the church he's involved in.  We're always willing to help any gathering by sending teams to witness to neighborhoods, or start bible studies, etc.  We're busy with the gospel.  We do produce Jim's podcast.  We believe and have seen that there are those who are still interested in organic church and we are looking for opportunities to learn and help them. 

I hope you will text me any questions you'd like him to address.  I think it would be important to resolve these issues!  Bring out the truth! 

https://www.facebook.com/JimMcCotterLIVE

That's quite an accusation that there is a list of people that Jim stole money from.... This would be outside of the scope of this forum, because this is about GCMWarning and I would assume that any of that "list" would need to be talked about from both sides... How do you define stealing??? Maybe a business deal that went bad to some people would be considered stealing or a lack of integrity. Now everyone would need to be evaluated by themselves, before accepting a blank statement that Jim McCotter has stolen money from a bunch of people.... Unless you can prove that he was walking around some city and would pickpocket wallets and cameras and what have you...

For instance, say that Jim was a landlord. His tenant got installed a washing machine wrong.... The washing machine flooded the place and caused $800 worth of damage... When the tenant's lease is up, Jim returns the $1,000 deposit minus the $800.... The tenant claims that Jim stole $800 from her... I wouldn't consider that a theft, but someone can call it that...

All that is to say is that each of these victims of thefts have to looked at individually. Are there contracts involved? What do they say? And before just accepting that accusation, look at it from both sides... 

I know Jim... I can see him as a tough business man, but not a person who is a common thief...  But I could see him holding someone to a contract....
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