Why did Jim McCotter leave?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[Linda]

The big question to me is: Why did he leave?

The "standard" line is: He left to pursue business interests. Or, words to that effect.

There is something fishy about that. You don't have to leave your church to pursue business interests. Plus, he was such a big part of the movement that the sudden (from what I understand) departure is rather odd.

Was anyone there when it happened?

How was the departure announced?

[EverAStudent]

The big question to me is: Why did he leave?

The "standard" line is: He left to pursue business interests. Or, words to that effect.

There is something fishy about that. You don't have to leave your church to pursue business interests. Plus, he was such a big part of the movement that the sudden (from what I understand) departure is rather odd.

Sadly, there is largely just opinion and speculation:  When did the whole Slick 50 affair come to light, before or after he left?  Was there pressure on him because so many accused him of defrauding them in that pyramid scheme?  Did the notion that all the churches had to tithe to him drive so many churches away that the only solution was for him to leave? 

Or was it because there were not sufficient numbers of Christians making customzed luxury jets that the Kingdom was beginning to suffer because of the lack?

Who can say?  Who can know?  Guess we'll always just wonder.

[Linda]

Was anyone there at the time of his departure? How was it announced?

Also, remember back a couple years ago when an ASU blog said McCotter would be speaking that Sunday...maybe April of 2006. Was anyone there? I remember that after the info got posted here, the blog post disappeared. I wonder what he said.

[wastedyearsthere]

I remember hearing that he was asked to leave -- because of all the controversy surrounding him at the time......

Everywhere he went -- he had controversy -- at that time GCI wanted to fit into the culture being another mainstream church.  I think all of JM's ventures didn't help GCI fit into the culture of another mainstream church.

[MidnightRider]

Sadly, there is largely just opinion and speculation:  When did the whole Slick 50 affair come to light, before or after he left?  Was there pressure on him because so many accused him of defrauding them in that pyramid scheme?  Did the notion that all the churches had to tithe to him drive so many churches away that the only solution was for him to leave? 

He left after the church leadership was centralized in the Washington DC area in the mid-1980s. That was when the apostleship teaching started. There was also some negative publicity for the church because of several members running for local public office. I think he left not long after that. But I have no idea if his departure was related to election issue, the apostleship issue, or something else. And I do not know if he decided to leave, or was encouraged to leave.

I think Slick50 was only a memory by then. I was in the church in TX in the early 1980s. I heard some stories about Slick50 but did not see any indication that it was still being marketed within the church.

[lone gone]

I checked Marching to Zion and it didn't seem to indicate when Jim left. However there was much info about Slick 50 and LEI and their rise and sudden fall.

Sam Lopez has said that he was around when Jim left and that the basic announcement was that he left without rancor, he was pursuing business interests. The conclusion was that he had become "unchallenged" by church leadership and wanted something new as a challenge.

[puff of purple smoke]

To quote from an email to GCMWarning a while ago:

When I joined in 1985,  the members who had been in the group a long time practically worshipped [Jim McCotter].  I saw a video with him, which even at the time was frightening to me.  It showed him being whisked away in a large car like a celebrity , but he wore these dark glasses and just gave off a terrible aura to even the most undiscerning of us.
 
Anyway,  it was explained to me when he "dropped out of the scene',  shortly after.  Was that because GCM was being accused of being a cult,  he left in order that the churches might live on without him.  Anyone who was suspicious of his leaving was strongly rebuked and I remember even my closest friend in the movement becoming emotional almost to the point of tears when I questioned some things about this man.

Rick Whitney speaking on the issue a few years ago at Faithwalkers during "The Great Commission Story":

     Jim, before GCM, and before we uh.. got back onto campuses with that ministry, and that vehicle.. Jim decided before the Lord that he really felt he wanted to be involved in raising capital to even get involved in media. And I remember he asked us all about that. A lot of us had questions.. some of us thought he should.. maybe.. It was a difficult time there because we loved him and he was in many ways our leader but we were thinking, "ahh, my goodness.."

    I remember some of us challenged him and he uhm- But he felt that he should do that didn't he? And it wasn't like he was going to do bad.. He just felt he needed to get involved, to help raise a ton of money to help try to influence the media in t- to try to shape our culture. He said, "you guys go on" and we did. And- I don't know what year that was, but.. just a few years after Jim's leaving we decided we needed to get back onto campuses cause we had a number of community chruches but we were losing our presence there. And so we formed GCM, with both Meyer then, then eventually Schroeder, then eventually Jeff Kurn . . .

(Note: During this quote you can hear what sounds like Rick almost breaking into tears while talking about Jim. The audio is on http://gcxweb.org)

Anyway, the whole thing has never really made sense to me, even though people like Steve Nelson have claimed I was being conspiratorial. Jim spent how many years teaching on loyalty to the movement, only to one day just decide to leave? In his sermons he acts proud of the criticism/controversy he is creating. I believe it is the church history sermon that he actually starts comparing the criticism of GC to criticism of other famous Christians in history, acting disappointed because GC doesn't yet have as much criticism as he thinks other famous Christians had. For him to just leave goes against everything he taught. it is another one of those fishy GC things.

[puff of purple smoke]

Also, to quote from The KANE Report:

It is not clear whether the apparent separation of McCotter from GCI can be taken at face value, especially given GCI/McCotter’s history of moves, name changes, and similar obscuring actions. Source number 11 reported to Operations a December 1987 meeting with Rob Irving, a GCI apostle and Southeast regional leader. Irving told Source 11 that, “Because of pressure and evil closing in on the church, we need an air of secrecy,” and that “McCotter has been sent away by the church to conduct church business incognito.” Source number 3, who was employed by McCotter’s Profit Group from June 1988 until July 1989, reported to Operations that President Dennis Clark called McCotter “on the average twice a day the entire time I was employed there.” Source 3 also reported that Rogers Kirven wrote for GCI publications during this same period following the apparent separation.

[Linda]

For him to just leave goes against everything he taught. it is another one of those fishy GC things.

Exactly.

Fishy. Very fishy. You don't have to leave a church to get involved in "raising capital" or "media" ventures. We heard that story, also. Sounds to me like a conspiracy to avoid having to explain the real reason...

[puff of purple smoke]

Fishy. Very fishy. You don't have to leave a church to get involved in "raising capital" or "media" ventures.

Exactly. And as far as media ventures go, he was ALREADY DOING THIS! The Cause, U.S. Press, etc.

Does anybody know of anything released during that time period (1986) that officially explained his leaving? Did he announce it in an audio farewell sermon? Did any of the GC newspapers explain why he was leaving? Or did he just vanish one day and the remaining leaders told everyone he was off to pursue media/capital?

[GuardedHeart]

I don't know exactly why JM left other than his bad press was hurting GCM.  I remember going to the summer (1986) conference in DC and there were protesters outside the auditorium where JM was speaking. They were handing out fliers which were anti McCotter/GCI GCM.  I was very young and with the people who were discipling me.  They quickly skirted me away from the protesters and advised me not to listen to them. I was told that these people were bitter slanderers and that I shouldn't believe anything that they said. I can't believe that was so blind as to not take the warning that was clearly in front of me. 

I also remember that his sermon was completely confusing to me and I got lost listening to him.  In fact, I can't remember a word he said!!  Shortly after that conference, JM left and hardly anyone would mention his name.  We were told something like he left for the best interests of the movement. I think that if you google his name you will get some interesting results.

[TurnLeft]

You do have to leave the church if you are planning to covertly teach truth through talk radio.  That was my understanding of the goal as I worked with Jim in those earliest business years. 

I don't know if I was being given the whole truth, but  I had no indication that the church disapproved of Jim's goals in any way.  I was encouraged by my pastors to work for him.

Jim was a visionary.  He was always looking for the next grand thing to do.   Remember how often "the vision" changed?   I think (and this is just my personal impression) that he really liked/likes the big, glitzy, powerful world of business.  The children seemed to change overnight from normal, ragtag homeschooled kids into fashionable and savvy jetsetters.

I'm not sure anyone but those at the very top could answer your question completely.  Maybe only Jim could. 

[Al]

He got bored. He recognized reality. He wanted to make money.

[me]

My understanding of why Jim left relates to his interest and conviction that the gospel is related to the media.  The term, gospel, means good news.  Hence, as he wrote in his booklet, Media Mandate, he felt Christians should be on the leading edge of communicating via the media.  I remember he mentioned that when the printing press was invented, the Bible was spread more quickly.  From the understanding I got while in the movement, I understood this activity to be important to him and something he wanted to focus on.  I realize that this created great confusion coupled with his strong conviction on loyalty, but when I discussed with him during DC '86, he encouraged me to do the work there where I was because he won't be there anymore....  Sure enough he was soon gone.  It appears to me, according to what I read in other McCotter history, that he has stayed relatively close to this vision, but seems to added a few interesting side businesses...

[Linda]

Still, I'm not buying it. There is a missing piece.

You don't have to leave your local church to start up a media ministry. You can be a businessman AND attend a church.

If he would have just stepped down from leadership, but continued to attend a GC church, I would be able to understand this move. What seems fishy is that:

-He started the movement

-He preached on loyalty

-He left suddenly without a lot of explanation

-The leaders who bought into his loyalty to the movement teaching and said they "wouldn't be loyal to men who aren't loyal" remain loyal to him.

[EverAStudent]

Linda, I am with you.  Jim's leaving does not pass the smell test, the loyalty test, or his own abberant "leaving GCI is a divorce" test.

No one had to leave their denomination to build a printing press in past ages.  No one had to leave their denomination to start a newspaper business in this age.  No one has to leave their denomination to build customized jets for oil-rich millionaires. 

The brutal fact is that Jim McCotter used to teach that leaving the GCI denomination was the very sin of divorce.  That same man left the GCI denomination "for business reasons" and not even for reasons of conscience.  The other brutal fact is that the GCI "national leaders" did not charge Jim McCotter with the sin of divorce, an act of partiality, favoritism, and hypocricy.  Since when does the doctrine of "leaving is divorce" get suspended if you were once a big shot in the group?!?!

No, either the whole leadership of GCI owes us an apology for ever having taught "leaving is a divorce" or they owe us an apology for showing favoritism to Jim by letting him leave without charging him with "divorcing the church" like they did us.  Either way, I'm waiting for my apology (but since I am not suicidal I am not holding my breath while I wait).

[wastedyearsthere]

I always thought he was asked to leave because of the controversy that seemed to follow him wherever he went.......

My theory only.  But since others are "asked" to leave now -- it might hold as much water as anything else, right?

From what I've been told -- he doesn't go to church anywhere -- Does anyone know if this is true or not?  I heard it from a loyal GCI person a few years back. 

[EverAStudent]

"IF" McCotter was "asked" to leave, then the entirety of GCI leadership blatantly lied to us all by saying it was of his own initiative that he left.  Where is my apology already?

Also, when others are "asked" to leave, they do so pretty much in disgrace (as if they were the cheating partner in a failed marriage).  Yet, McCotter was never disgraced or treated as someone on disciplinary action but always held up as paragon of GCI values.

His leaving remains unexplained and in contradiction to all that McCotter and the national elders ever taught us about loyalty to GCI.

[wastedyearsthere]

With so much lying and deception in the movement -- I wouldn't be surprised if this was a "half truth".  Kind of true that he left on his own -- although leaving out the part where he was asked to leave...... 

The whole movement seems to believe the ends justify the means.....

Someone has got to know what the WHOLE truth is!!

[OlderAndWiser]

I cannot answer your question with any certaintly, but I can add a bit of information of which others appear to be unaware and which might be relevant.

Barbara McCotter (Jim's wife) came from money. In the early 70s, it was whispered that her father (Edward Bison) was worth between $10-20 million. It was also common knowledge among the elders who knew Jim - as well as those who knew Barb's family - that they were sending the McCotter family money on a regular basis. I recall that Jim, Barb, and the kids always had excellent living quarters, a nice vehicle, and higher end clothing (Izod, Ralph Lauren) when they came home to visit, while everyone else in their group lived like nomads.

Bison died in 1984 and his wife (Mary) in 1986. As far as I know, Barb was the only child they had. Draw your own conclusions, but it seems rather clear to me that Jim came into a heck of a lot of money and thought he could parlay that into more money and more influence.

He has failed in virtually every venture he has undertaken, including the media (newspaper and radio) and resorts (Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado). Maverick Jets has had all sorts of problems, too, from what I read.

People speak of Jim as if he is two people - the Jim prior to 1986 and the Jim after 1986. For those of us who knew him in his younger days, Jim is Jim - manipulative, ambitious, aggressive, persuasive, conniving, and hungry for power, money, and influence.