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November 20, 2018, 03:15:01 pm *
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Author Topic: Evergreen Board Members  (Read 4944 times)
Greentruth
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 11:13:25 pm »

Rhetorical Question: If you have discovered the names of any of the BOT would you post them online?

I have found 3 names of the BOT that are not Lynn Newman and Jim Bird (1 a pastor besides Mark Bowen & probably not part of the investigation)

Rhetorical Question #2: What difference would that make in the out come, other than to manipulate, caterwaul, and possibly do damage to more innocent people? Seriously, what would be your motive!
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UffDa
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 11:54:16 pm »

Complete transparency. No more withholding information which should be available to the public. Especially after reading the Great Commission Churches website where they encourage persons to contact the board of trustees as a step in their accountability process.
http://gccweb.org/about/history/accountability/
For the record, the names I have found for each individual are already public/publicized on their own professional pages.
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DarthVader
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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2018, 05:27:20 am »

I absolutely think you should post the name of any staff member besides Jim, Lynne and Mark who is on the board. Under normal circumstances that would mean staff (Jim, Lynn, Mark, Pastor X) represent fully half the board -4 of 8 which in no way qualifies as an independent board. It would be worthy of reporting this to the evangelical council for financial accountability which GCM is a member and has requirements around board member independence of its members.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 05:50:02 am by DarthVader » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2018, 06:51:36 am »

My first thought was that it would be better for Evergreen to reveal this information themselves, voluntarily. However, if the names and their status as board members are already published elsewhere, then in my opinion, it's fine to go ahead and share them along with the documenting links.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2018, 07:07:18 am »

DarthVader,  GCC is a member of ECFA, but ECC is not.  GCC has apparently met those standards--although I'm not sure how if their National Board is the only board because NONE of them are outside of GCC--but that does not mean that every church within GCC has.

I contacted the ECFA and they pointed me back to John Hopler (of course) for more details.  So it would be appropriate to contact him to ask who GCC's "indepdenent" governing board is.   I'm wondering if the ECFA just gives stamps of approval to anyone who can explain why their board is "not indepdenent but really it is independent."  The person who responded to me said the organization has to disclose any conflicts of interest and they evaluate whether it is a problem.  So ECFA has their written standards but it seems organizations don't actually have to abide by them?
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DarthVader
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« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2018, 08:22:27 am »

DarthVader,  GCC is a member of ECFA, but ECC is not.  GCC has apparently met those standards--although I'm not sure how if their National Board is the only board because NONE of them are outside of GCC--but that does not mean that every church within GCC has.

I contacted the ECFA and they pointed me back to John Hopler (of course) for more details.  So it would be appropriate to contact him to ask who GCC's "indepdenent" governing board is.   I'm wondering if the ECFA just gives stamps of approval to anyone who can explain why their board is "not indepdenent but really it is independent."  The person who responded to me said the organization has to disclose any conflicts of interest and they evaluate whether it is a problem.  So ECFA has their written standards but it seems organizations don't actually have to abide by them?

Hey Rebel - thanks. I'm aware GCM ministries is an EFCA member while ECC is not but ECC does tout the GCM EFCA membership on its website. I think having 4 staff members (of 8, if that is true) on a member church board (GCM ministries is largely funded by its churches) might be enough to put GCM ministries on the EFCA radar, which would be a worthy endeavor.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2018, 08:34:55 am »

DarthVader, that is interesting about ECFA on their website. It does imply that they meet those guidelines.  A church shouldn't be able to use that logo if they are not themselves approved, I would think.  And I can't honestly say I know what the requirements are for an umbrella organization and then the individual churches underneath it. 

I agree that it might be worth getting on the radar, if EFCA actually does what they're supposed to do.  I'm not saying they don't, but  their first interaction with me was "GCC is a members in good standing" with no other details, no questions about any concerns, no verification of specific information that I had requested.  I had to ask specific questions in a second e-mail to which they assured me they evalute organizations.  The board has to disclose "blood or material relationships" but I would be curious as to how often ECFA waives those.  It seems they have discretion.  Which makes sense but how much discretion they use is another thing.

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Huldah
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2018, 08:40:44 am »

DarthVader, it has been attempted, but apparently ECFA pretty much puts its members on the honor system. The most recent thread about GCC abd ECFA membership is here: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/great-commission-churches-and-the-ecfa/

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DarthVader
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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2018, 08:40:56 am »

Don't you think now, in light of these allegations, is a strange time for people to be demanding to know who is on the BOT?  Did you know that Mark Darling was receiving hundreds of daily emails (Jeromy got some too) that were sexually explicit and said horrible and nasty things, and these emails came from one of your own long time forum members that the admins refuse to block??  Maybe this forum is partly to blame for no one wanting to release names?  Oh wait, there is still an active investigation as well.  So sure, lets just put all those names out there, maybe their email addresses as well.  

Did you also consider that in an effort to ensure that the BOT is not biased by any opinions of those from within the walls of ECC is another reason??  I know that the BOT member from my location, and his wife,  have had to put a temporary hold on some very close friendships, like they can just talk about the weather basically, until this is over.  

You just have NO idea of what is going on.  None.  

GTA, I beg to differ - I was asked to serve on the Board in 2007 (I declined for personal reasons) I know the Board member from my location and count our location's pastor as one of my close friends.  So I may have - some - idea of what is going on.

It is precisely for times such as these when transparency of leadership is the MOST important. If, in fact, 4 of 8 board members are staff, that is a huge problem for me - although as Rebel correctly points out, ECC is not a member of EFCA, it is a clear violation of EFCAs standards of accountability as a majority of board members must be "independent" - church staff is NOT independent.

The Willow Creek Board just finished an investigation of Bill Hybles (perhaps a little higher profile than Mark Darling, hmm?) and their Board's identity has been fully known the entire time (they also weren't hand-picked by pastors under investigation).   It is a complete aberration to have a secret board and that we are even debating whether the BOT should or shouldn't be anonymous makes us so far outside the mainstream of Christianity as to be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.  We like to pretend we are just like the EV Free Church, or Baptist church, etc...but when the rubber meets the road, we are not. Having a secret board gives credibility to the worst things said about GCM on this site.
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DarthVader
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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2018, 08:43:07 am »

DarthVader, it has been attempted, but apparently ECFA pretty much puts its members on the honor system. The most recent thread about GCC abd ECFA membership is here: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/great-commission-churches-and-the-ecfa/



Might be worth another run..If the office starts getting enough calls, it might raise the alarm bells.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 08:43:44 am »

Huldah, DV, I want to clarify that I only approached ECFA to ask about the GCC Board,  I did not mention anything about ECC or how their board is currently operating.  Just to say the door is not completely closed on that interaction.  
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 08:45:32 am »

Well, they will not entertain any concerns that they deem to be part of a "harassment campaign."  Although if there are true violations that people are asking about, I can't imagine how that would be harassment.  But I wonder about institutional protectionism with that caveat.


DarthVader, it has been attempted, but apparently ECFA pretty much puts its members on the honor system. The most recent thread about GCC abd ECFA membership is here: http://forum.gcmwarning.com/general-discussion/great-commission-churches-and-the-ecfa/



Might be worth another run..If the office starts getting enough calls, it might raise the alarm bells.
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DarthVader
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2018, 08:48:24 am »

Before I'd do that I would want confirmation that one of the 5 "lay" member of the current BOT is, in fact a pastor. Uffda said that - but I haven't seen a link yet. I did a little searching and Ryan Stahl (Pastor, the Rock) was on the BOT at one time, but he apparently left the BOT when he became a pastor, which gives me some doubt that Uffda is accurate about there being a pastor on the current BOT other than Mark, Jim & Lynn (yes I know Jim and Lynn aren't pastors).
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Greentruth
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2018, 09:01:30 am »

Just more caterwauling, with the point of trying to discredit the BOT.  Whoever is on the board, and whatever decision is made, given all the FACTS will be quite public. I fail to see the significance in exposing anyone at this time other than those involved with claimed incident at the time accusations where made. I think some are afraid the accusations are not holding water, and want to attempt some sort of discredit.
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UffDa
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« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2018, 11:04:19 pm »

More potential Evergreen BOT members
Nicholas “Nic”  Wenner according to personal info page on professional website www.parkerwenner.com
(Possible BOT member for ECC Bloomington-Not Confirmed)

Courtney Padgitt according to personal info on LinkedIn “Served in various volunteer and leadership capacities with Evergreen Church, including Board of Trustees, Board of Directors for Love Inc, and Children’s Ministry & Programming Director”
(Possible BOT member for ECC New Hope-Not Confirmed)
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araignee19
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2018, 07:18:54 am »

...to me, the names of people who are on the board is critical mostly because I want to know that it is not made up of family members of the pastors, people on the payroll of ECC, or other people where a clear conflict of interests is present....

...for no other reason than avoiding even the appearance of evil, the board should not be anonymous in this process.

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DarthVader
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« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2018, 07:32:16 am »

Well said..araignee.  Personally, I'd be most interested in knowing who The Rock board member is.  Given he or she was appointed by the subject of the investigation, it would be hard to believe there is not such a close personal relationship that good governance principals would say the The Rock board member should recuse him or herself, which has not, to my knowledge, happened.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 09:23:34 am by DarthVader » Logged
UffDa
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« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2018, 11:48:03 am »

I wonder if Tom Lyden from Fox 9 news has been able to uncover who the BOT members are.
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UffDa
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2018, 10:03:34 pm »

The “bump” of silence
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