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Author Topic: GCM is Trasporting to India, well at least Tom Short  (Read 12700 times)
Jason Stauffacher
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« on: December 10, 2007, 03:33:18 am »

I have a month of this winter, and was planning a trip to India.  I listened to Faithwalkers and was slightly impressed with Tom Short, and noticed he is a national leader.  SOOOOOOOOOO....I went to his website.  (www.shortreport.com) I noticed one HUGE thing.  He is going to India in January like me!  Wow.  So I wrote an email asking the chap if I could come and see him, as his website says go and see him wherever he is going to preach at.

I asked.  Not sure what to think.  McCotter's ideals of the 1970's went viral in the 21st Century.  GCM is EVERYWHERE lads and lasses.  To bad he did not get into Amway, or did he?

Here is his response to me:

Quote
Tom Short <tomshort@columbus.rr.com>
to   Jason Stauffacher <jasonstauffacher@gmail.com>,
date   Dec 10, :35 AM
subject   RE: Visiting you while in India
mailed-by   columbus.rr.com
   
Jason,
 
I would like to respectfully decline your coming to be with me while in India.  My reasoning is very simple: I have a very busy schedule and want every extra minute possible to go towards spending time with the leader I'm working with there. I know me and, if I had you joining with me during this time, I would feel obligated to be your host, to spend time with you, talk with you, include you in my times of coaching, etc. And, thus, I fear this would prove to be a distraction to what I am going there for.
 
I'm sorry to have to decline. Don't take it personally.

God bless,
 
Tom



SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO being me, I wrote back

Here she is:

Quote
Tom Short <tomshort@columbus.rr.com>,
date   Dec 10, 2007 6:11 PM
subject   Re: Visiting you while in India
mailed-by   gmail.com

Tom,

Could you spare a dinner?  One with a cup of chai?  I am going to India, it was planned a few months ago.  I was surprised when I read it on your website.  A little naan, tandorri chicken or butter chicken would not hurt with a nice short chat.  One meal?  I understand.

Well, if you have an intiniery, I'll be in a few states in India in a few weeks.

In Christ,

Jason


GCM has gone viral.  It has once it hits India.  

God Save the Queen!

-Jason
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 06:30:17 am »

Jason wrote:

Quote
GCM has gone viral.  It has once it hits India.  

God Save the Queen!


Relax, Jason.  There are over a billion Indians.  Considering that huge population, you can probably find a sizeable number who think Donald Trump's combover is stylin'.  I would imagine GCM will exude a similar attraction to the Hindu faithful.

Never mind that the church has been in India from the time of St. Thomas; undoubtedly, we Americans know how to do it better. :roll:
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 04:23:02 pm »

I know if I was planning a month's vacation in India the most exciting thing I can think of to do would be hang out with Tom Short!!! Smiley
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nateswinton
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 06:15:16 am »

Tom has recently been hearing about real-life revivals in the hundreds of thousands going on in Southern and Eastern Africa and in Asia.  When he visited Ames last year, he told me he was planning on going to meet with a preacher in Southern Africa who had led nearly a million people to Christ.  He was fascinated by the idea, and had heard of miracles and healings, and wanted to witness it for himself and see what he could learn.

I'm 95% sure that he's planning to do the same thing in India.  He's wanting to learn and observe, and probably was able to set up some time with a particular revival preacher to do some discipleship.

I don't agree with Tom on everything, but I have a great deal of respect for him.  The times that I've been around him, he's been very honest, vulnerable, and humble to learn more.  He asked me a lot of questions about post-modernism (cause I'm post-modern) when he was here last year, and really wanted to understand.  I still see him reading books on scripture interpretation, and I remember last year he was asking Dave Bovey some questions about a few verses he had read.

Anyway, I guess I'm just saying that I generally like Tom, and I hope his trip goes well.
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 12:24:42 pm »

Quote from: "nateswinton"
Tom has recently been hearing about real-life revivals in the hundreds of thousands going on in Southern and Eastern Africa and in Asia. . . .I'm 95% sure that he's planning to do the same thing in India.  He's wanting to learn and observe, and probably was able to set up some time with a particular revival preacher to do some discipleship.


Thanks for letting me know that, Nate.  I don't know Tom at all--I'm happy to hear that he's open to learn from Christians in other cultures.  I spent several years overseas, and found for myself just how "culturally bound" I could be.  There's nothing like trying to communicate with someone who has a fundamentally different concept of reality, let alone try to discuss even minor points of theology with them.  It's indeed a humbling experience.

In my 80s experience with GCI, there was a naive belief that its evangelical and ecclesiastical model was universally applicable.  Some of the GCI characteristics ("purposeful" relationships, general utilitarian approach to life) would have been poison to the culture in the country where I lived.  Nonetheless, the national church was growing by leaps and bounds--sometimes by the old-fashioned method of martyrdom.

The little I've read about the church in India is that much of the mass conversion is related to the Dalits, the Hindu "untouchables", who find freedom in the egalitarianism of the church.  Conversion isn't just a matter of personal salvation to them, it's a political and cultural act of resistance.

That's certainly different from the environment that American evangelicals live in.
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2007, 07:20:50 am »

Guess this is what Tom Short is doing in India:

Quote
Dear Christian Friend,

God’s grace be yours in fullest measure during this Christmas season!

 

In just under three weeks, I will be departing for India where I will be leading our first every Faithwalkers India conference. I believe God is going to do some mighty things at this conference and I’d like to invite you to help make it happen by

 

1. Praying for this event and

2. Sponsoring a student so that he/she can attend.

 

Faithwalkers conferences are designed to give younger believers the opportunity to learn from seasoned veterans of the faith who have followed Christ over the long haul.

 

(Note: I hope you are planning on attending one of this year’s Faithwalkers conferences in America that run from Dec 27 – 31. It’s not too late to sign up.
For more information, go to http://www.gccweb.org/conferences/faithwalkers/index.html)

 

We are expecting 200+ students to come to Faithwalkers India – and I know that each and every one will have a humble, teachable heart and an enthusiastic spirit as they seek to learn more about Christ and how to reach their nation with the gospel.

 

Did you know…

    * India is fast becoming the most populated nation in the world and it has more lost people than any nation of the world
    * Most of the world’s Hindus -- over 800 million -- live in India
    * India has the second largest Muslim population of any country – more Muslims live in India than in the entire Middle East
    * While Christianity is legal, there is a growing amount of persecution against those who convert (or who try to convert others)

 

Millions of Indians are turning to Christ, but most mission work is among the rural poor who, frankly, are being left behind as the economy of India grows at an explosive rate. I’ve often wondered who will reach the university students and the 250 million people of the middle class who are leading India into the 21st century. Two years ago, God opened a door for me to be involved with this huge sub-group and, by God’s grace, I’m entering through it!

 

Our Faithwalkers India conference will inspire these 200 young people to be fully-committed to Christ and to discover how they can be used of the Lord to reach their nation with the gospel. Please pray for these young people to be courageous (especially in light of the persecution they could be called to endure) and filled with faith.

 

Would you consider sponsoring a student to come to Faithwalkers India?

$12 will cover their conference registration, housing and food – everything!

 

Yes, you read it right: $12. Not much of a price to have a mighty impact on a young person’s life in a non-Christian part of the world!

 

These students have very little disposable income. Before God, I am hoping and praying that, together, we will be able to pay these expenses for each and every student who attends.

 

$12 is a lot of money to them, but very little to you and me. And who knows, the student you sponsor just might turn out to be a man or woman of God who will lead thousands of others to Christ. It can happen and, in India, it is happening already.

 

My friend and co-worker in India, Yohannan Abraham and his wife, Shirley, give themselves tirelessly to the gospel. Just last Saturday, they had a gathering of students and led 17 of them to Christ. Some of these new believers will be attending Faithwalkers India! My heart beats faster just thinking about it!

 

Please, mark you calendar now to pray each day, Jan 4 – 9, for Faithwalkers India.

 

And please, click on this link right now to discover how you can sponsor a student so he/she can attend Faithwalkers India. http://www.shortreport.com/faithwalkers_india.htm

 

I thank you for your help.

Someday, in heaven, one of these students will be able to thank you as well!

 

God bless you,

 

Tom Short

www.shortreport.com
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Angry
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2007, 09:50:59 am »

Interesting that neither his request for money nor his attached agenda list where he's going in India.  Suppose he's taking in a little sun and golf at a Goan coast resort?

Angry
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2007, 12:19:39 pm »

Quote from: "Angry"
Interesting that neither his request for money nor his attached agenda list where he's going in India.  Suppose he's taking in a little sun and golf at a Goan coast resort?


Eh, I doubt it. I do hope they post teachings from the conference. If I find time, I would like to see what sort of topics they are teaching to the 200 Indian youth. It does seem strange to me. I wasn't aware that GCx had much of a presense in India? Or even a church there? If I recall correctly, the point of Faithwalkers is for people who have been in the movement for 25+ years to talk to newer people in the movement. Are those 200+ youth GCx'ers?
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nateswinton
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2007, 04:37:09 pm »

I'm very surprised as well.  I'd like to see who their speakers are and what the topics covered are.  A lot of the stuff covered at the US Faithwalkers would be so inappropriate and awkward in India.
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2007, 05:25:00 pm »

Quote from: "nateswinton"
I'd like to see who their speakers are and what the topics covered are.  A lot of the stuff covered at the US Faithwalkers would be so inappropriate and awkward in India.


I hope he's not getting himself in over his head.  Beyond being inappropriate and awkward, it could be downright dangerous, if not for him then perhaps for the attendees.  http://new.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11025

The Christians who have been there for, oh, the last 2000 years will know what can and can't be done without provoking a violent response.  I hope he listens to them.
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Valley Noir
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2007, 09:33:37 pm »

Gospel for Asia is doing so well over there with native missionaries, too.  This is such a great example of GC elitism, actually, because instead of partnering with completely reputable, well-organized and mature groups like GFA, they start something new and totally GC.  If they were supporting GFA and working alongside them it'd be one thing, but this is just strange.
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Jason Stauffacher
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 11:02:39 pm »

Tom's trip to India.  I did not expect all this chatter.  Yes, there are non-conversion cities in places in India, some Hindu towns and Muslim towns.  For those who are not savvy with India or Asia, India is one of the oldest countries in the world, has a rising population to be the biggest one in the world to exceed 1 billion AND has all the major religions of the world: Christianity, Muslim, Jews, Sikhs, Hinduism, Buddhism, and with you Christians you have your Charismatics to your Catholics.  Goa is a huge state that has integrated Catholic iconic worship and Hinduism.  Many times a Catholic Indian girl from Goa marries a chap who is a Hindu.  Goa is like Hawaii, very nice and beachy.  AND pick as many cults you can think of, as about 800 start there a year.  With GCM going, that might make 801 this year.  Or the first one in 2008.

Fancy that.

Here is a thought.  I said GCM will go viral in India.  Some said, you crazy...  BUT how many did Jim McCotter pull in the 1970's and what did Mark Darling say the number is at now in 2007?  55,000.  A great Amway number.  It grew.  What is the growth of that, from 30 to 55,000 in 30 years.  All I can say is that the Christian Indians I know in the States and abroad are very committed and are very charismatic, not meaning the gifts this time, but very very likable, and get lots done with their words and actions.  If GCM took 30 years to go from 30 to 55,000, why would India be any different.

Go Tom Go!  Go Tom Go!  (Said like at an old high school football game.)

Go Tom GO!!!

Him having a Faithwalkers in, most likely, New Delhi, will be yearly thing now.  They want to create new leadership, as if you listened to Knox, Darling or Martindale at the most recent Faithwalkers in Missouri, their next goal is to shepherding new leadership for the 21st Century.  And Tom is in India in a few days.  Nah, nothing will grow there, you say.  Are you sure?

-Jason
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sistanchrist
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 08:30:14 pm »

If Tom is truely curious about the revivals that he is hearing about in India and other places around the world, his brain will explode as he will be forced to reckon with several things that he and his organization do not believe happen. In most of those revivals, dreastic healings, tounges, prophecy, and other signs and wonders have been occuring. Not to mention a large majority of those revivals have happened as a result of communities uniting together in prayer and worship. These are all things that GCx does not believe in. I hope that Tom is truely curious about these things as one of the above posters mentioned. If so, Tom will be in a position where he will have to question what he is a part of and what he is doing in his ministry.
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theresearchpersona
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2008, 04:22:26 am »

Yet fancy that the Jesus and His apostles warned us there would be men who brought signs and lying wonders...much of what passes for "healing" these days is done through a technique called "mesmerism"; medical documentation people!

Now frankly God isn't limited from healing...no way! But miracles done don't validate a ministry, a group, or its teachings...we know by their fruit, and their fruit are their words: but considering the average "evangelical" christian today receives a sermon roughly as deep as the closing statements to sunday school sessions many years ago, it's hard to find people who have a taste for what really is good fruit.

In America most of those claiming to be doing healings etc. aren't; they're massive frauds, many now under investigation for financial missapropriations and abuse. On top of it these are the same people with heretical doctrines and some of them happen to be highly successful in flying to other countries around the world (in private jets while earmarking stops at the cream of the world's hotels and resorts as "layovers" might I add).

Just from experience, (though maybe repetitious) the average judgment and discernment as well as proper teaching concerning healings etc. amongst American Christians is often dismal and often downright false. Interestingly Jesus said that a wicked and perverse generation seeks after signs.

A good example is tongues. "Tongue" is just as faithfully rendered "language", same meaning. At pentecost they spoke in "tongues" and all around heard in their own language. I've been around plenty who babble mindessly and think it's tongues...but I was truly impressed (as in impresion, not "oh wow") when once a Christian man told us about a trip in South America where he had one of the best conversations of his life with a woman on a bus...to whom he tried talking the next day and they both left bewildered: she spoke Portuguesse and he English. It was telling that he gave all the glory to God, and admiration, and never put any focus on himself or claimed anything beyond how incredible God was (at least that I remember).

Just being the cautious guy; the Middle East and Asia also happen to be places where men in white robes are walking about performing miracles whom the Muslims are calling "Isa" (to Muslims this means Jesus), and so are others.

Also, yes, there are GCMers in India. I know of one native man who is a missionary and learned that he travelled here a few years back for meetings. So they do apparently have locals there doing the work.

Take care. : )
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jehu
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2008, 11:33:17 pm »

Quote from: "Valley Noir"
The little I've read about the church in India is that much of the mass conversion is related to the Dalits, the Hindu "untouchables", who find freedom in the egalitarianism of the church.  Conversion isn't just a matter of personal salvation to them, it's a political and cultural act of resistance.

That's certainly different from the environment that American evangelicals live in.


GCM and other associated ministries aren't exactly liberation theologies.  I wonder how the Dalits will feel once they've discovered they've jumped from the frying pan to the fire.
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jehu
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2008, 11:39:21 pm »

Quote from: "theresearchpersona"
Also, yes, there are GCMers in India. I know of one native man who is a missionary and learned that he travelled here a few years back for meetings. So they do apparently have locals there doing the work.


GCM is just working under the existing model of appearing indigenous. Blending in not only is more effective evangelistically, it also makes one's organization an intelligence asset. It really doesn't matter who's doing the footwork as long as they buy the philosophy and report to the "mother ship".
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exshep
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2008, 09:08:14 pm »

I have garnered quite a bit of respect for Tom.  I have had the  honor of hearing him preach at Texas A&M  and University of North Texas where I had also developed some neat friendship with Hope Fellowship.  

He does have  a busy schedule, but is willing to take a  minute after preaching on campus. He has gone the extra mile in reaching out to former GC members who were affected.  He has had some "Short Notes" on bitterness and what happens when your church lets you down.

His presentation at past Faithwalkers were sound and actually informative and thought provoking.
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Had friend in Columbus church 80's and 90s. Member left in 1993  Involved GC in Texas  2005-2007.  Empathy to both  with  positive and negative aspects.
Isthisreal?
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 07:18:06 pm »

Wow...the forum posts private personal letters. More evidence of some classy slander-gossip. Sad. What's wrong with Am way? LOL!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 07:21:47 pm by Isthisreal? » Logged
PietWowo
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 07:27:12 pm »

Wow...the forum posts private personal letters. More evidence of some classy slander-gossip. Sad. What's wrong with Am way? LOL!

It's a business that some people have made a lot of money with, but others haven't. Of course if someone doesn't approach any business as a business, it would be very hard for them to make any money with it. Though with Amway itself, there have been "Diamonds" or upline, that have made considerable money with the sale of Business Support Materials, such as recordings of speakers, books, and conferences. So, it is at times hard to say where the money that these Diamonds have made is really coming from.
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Godisgrace
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 10:55:06 pm »

Interesting that neither his request for money nor his attached agenda list where he's going in India.  Suppose he's taking in a little sun and golf at a Goan coast resort?

Angry

When I was attending the GCC church, there was a GCC pastor who talked about frequent trips to India. He ended up getting in trouble for evangelism work in India. He was unable to continue without risk of getting caught entering. I believe it was Rick Whitney, but honestly don't remember.

If India is the same way today.....I don't think anyone will hear what the India faith walkers looks like. Culturally there could be more risk for believers.
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