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Author Topic: The Roots of Evergreen  (Read 8887 times)
Free in Christ
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« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2018, 03:34:17 pm »

I was a member elsewhere, but here was my experience of learning the history: As college students, we were told a lot about the glory days of the bus and the early years. We were told that we were part of that amazing legacy of what God was doing beginning with the bus. (This was post the error paper in 1991.) There was never any hint of anything negative in the past. A number of years after that, I first heard of the Weakness Paper when they told us about it in our leadership class. We were given the paper, but no other information, such as the other documentation on this site. No one else in the church was told about the paper (at least at that time) other than those of us in leadership.
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Free in Christ
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« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2018, 03:48:27 pm »

Also, in terms of the early leadership, in my time (90s, 2000s) I never heard anything but highest praise of the early leadership. We were encouraged to listen to Jim McCotter's teaching tapes daily, which I did. One of his children was an honored member of our group, so there was no animosity there. (Not saying there should have been towards the person, but there was no hint the father (Mccotter) wasn't still the respected (revered?) founder or any hint of a troubled history. 
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araignee19
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« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2018, 04:48:43 pm »

I would personally speculate they justify this by thinking "leaving out parts isn't technically lying, and this story make us a better witness by making us look more unified." I personally think this could be done in a way which has honorable intentions and is not malicious. But because there are lingering problems in pockets of this organization related to these historical problems, this is an unwise approach. 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -George Santayana

The only other two options I see are they genuinely think the history they have shared is correct for some reason, in which case they could provide an explanation of the facts they are basing this on for us, or they are being intentionally deceptive for some reason. I'd rather have an answer from one of the pastors involved in sharing this information than speculate, so please anyone feel free to provide detail.
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observer
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« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2018, 06:06:02 pm »

One basic trait of GCx is its ahistoricism. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahistoricism

Why wouldn't this trait impact both the histories of local churches as well as the overall history of the "movement," which is impossible to understand apart from many much larger contexts?

The reason why the McCotterite and "National Leader" arrogance that resonates though GCx is so dangerous is because it becomes a force for know-it-all-ism about things that are just not easy to know much about at all.





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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2018, 12:52:08 pm »

Observer,

If this is the case, that GCx really does not concern itself with an accurate portrayal of history, or think that the history of their organization is very important except to glorify the good old days as in general being on fire for God, then that has a lot of ramifications.

That would mean it does not bother them to smother the history, explain it away with a brush of the hand, call people bitter gossips who bring up the past and try to make sense of it. This explains a lot of their handling of critics. It seems what is important to them is what is current: current membership and growth, current reputation, and then doing only what they have to in order to clear up their reputation and stay off cult lists.

It dawns on me that, just like I made a rudimentary history of Evergreen's roots, someone from each "work" in the 70s and 80s who is now out of the organization but who was in it during those years and witnessed it first hand, could write up a "history" and it would flesh out a little bit what Larry Pile so diligently put forward as best he could from his perspective and other eye witnesses. What if we did not have Larry Pile's work? Most of us peons would be in the dark about what was going on, how our piece of the GC world fits in to the bigger picture in light of the beginnings. We would have a lot of trouble making sense of our experiences and seeing where things went wrong, where abusive practices are continuing despite apology letters and re-naming. And we would not see as much of what the shaky foundations were and the glaring abuses which were happening in "the good old days".

For instance, this is why John Hopler's letter about the reconciliation with Bill Taylor did not ring true to many of us, because we had read Larry Pile's very detailed account of that excommunication debacle.

So thank God for the bit of history we do have, for our online museum such as it is. (There aren't enough dinosaurs on here, right Huldah?)
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UffDa
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« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2018, 08:17:03 pm »

I too remember married couples being discouraged from attending The Rock Mpls. Itís ironic now that the church has so many ďyoung couples & familiesĒ and shares a building with Urban Refuge. Does The Rock have a U of MN ministry anymore?
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blonde
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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2018, 02:56:56 am »

Contact Tom Jollie at https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomjollie

He helped the PR of the early early days of Evergreen. He did marketing campaigning with Mark Darling and Brent Knox. It was not the Holy Spirit that built Evergreen, it was a mailer campaign.

They reached out with the mailer campaign to all the south metro of Minneapolis. Tom and his family goes to Eagle Brook mega churches, now. They reject Evergreen now, but does not realize his liabilities.

P.S. Jeromy Darling, your dad did not build Evergreen. The Holy Spirit did not. It was a mailer campaign, thought of by mostly of Mark, Brent and Jollie. And Mike Wakomoto-- the Japanese guy that left too like John VanDyck. Mike Wakomoto left ECC to BCC. See a pattern, here,  Jeromy? Leave, cuz you were abused, call it out, and the person that left is at fault. Keep on blaming the abused. Just like papa Darling.

-Blonde
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 02:59:13 am by blonde » Logged

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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2018, 07:27:16 am »

Well that settles it. Direct mail is strictly a tool of the devil.
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2018, 08:15:09 am »

Why is mocking people who have left Evergreen necessary?
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araignee19
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« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 10:18:34 am »

I actually reject the premise that the holy spirit can't use a mailer campaign. Not quite sure what the point of that post was in regards to Tom, blonde. Sorry. I'm open to clarification.
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EscapeFromSummitview
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« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2018, 10:27:07 am »

blonde is the type of person who makes everyone else on this forum look bad. Many of his posts have been deleted or moved to the moribund equine, and apparently he sent Mark Darling a bunch of obscene emails. GCC loyalists love to try to group him together with the other people posting here.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2018, 10:39:55 am »

Not that it matters, but Iím not a church hopper.  

Iíve attended church since birth and my average is about one church for every six years of my life.  Including moving to different towns for college.  And living in different states and cities.

I wouldnít consider that church hopping?  And unless we move again, I donít foresee us switching churches unless we move to a different location of the same church closer to our new house.  

Not only do I not church hop, but we have been known to drive over 30 minutes to continue to attend churches even if we have moved further away.

Weíve served on councils and boards. Youth groups, SS teachers, small groups, VBS, mentorship programs, camp counselor,  nursery, janitorial work, food service.  We attend fairly close to weekly if health permits.  And we do more in the middle of the week if other things are going on.  This is the least involved weíve been in any church and we are now pursuing even more involvement as health issues improve in our family.

In our family, husband, me, childrenó weíve been on something like 14 mission trips and there will be another one this year. Led countless Bible clubs and parties and showers and events for people.

We are not some weird church hopping family that canít find something to please us.

You think we are so much lower quality Christians than you hold yourself to be when the truth is none of those actions I listed above make us better or worse than anyone else.  And if we had church hopped, it just might mean we havenít clicked yet and we take it seriously.


Donít confuse caring with being overly critical.  And donít assume that because people didnít like your church or found it bad for their lives that they find all churches bad for their lives.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 06:35:52 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2018, 10:41:41 am »

And yes I disagree with Blondeís  methods. 

Maybe Blonde needs some help or support.  Not sure. 
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G_Prince
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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2018, 11:40:31 am »

I've never heard a GCx member complain about "church hopping" when someone "hops" into one of their congregations. It only becomes a slur when people leave GCx.   
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2018, 01:19:00 pm »

I never saw or heard of anyone having a problem with coming or going from ECC. In twenty plus years I left three times and came back because of work moves. All I ever received was love and prayers. Sure, I saw a few leave a Church with a burr in their saddle, but usually it was  not a healthy decision, meaning they left because they didnít agree with something. Like living with the neighbors wife etc.

I had an interesting discussion with a friend who completed their undergraduate degree at North Western. One of the reoccurring problems with Church disgruntlement is that many think Church is a democracy, and in fact Church is a theocracy, as taught at NW.  If you donít agree with the theocracy move on, pray for them and let God take care of it. Blondes comments are immature at best, and I believe just trying to stir the pot.

Agatha? Your ok with someone sending crude emails like Blonde did?  And some wonder why they get lumped together. Also Agatha, I wonder if the pastor of your current Church would agree with your advocacy of Blonde type tactics?
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2018, 01:30:34 pm »

Isthisreal:

I don't think any of us on this forum are looking for perfection in a church. You are just making that up, because you do not have any facts to back that up. We think it is important to warn people about some of the unhealthy or dangerous aspects of GCC. I'm not looking for perfection in a church, I know that is waiting for me when I go to be with Jesus and when His Kingdom comes. Why  do you like to ridicule people on this forum and paint us with one brush as if you know what we all believe? And why would you want to ridicule a brother or sister in Christ who may be having trouble finding a church that is the best fit for them? Why the attitude? Why throw in the words "care less" like we are some kind of scum?

GT, I was told to leave EC after 18 years in a GC church the very first time my husband and I respectfully went to the pastors with some concerns. And I have a friend who's daughter was treated horribly because she did not go to a college where there was a GC church. It happens. That was Evergreen. Recently. Just because something  did not happen to you does not mean it does not happen.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2018, 01:40:13 pm »

I never saw or heard of anyone having a problem with coming or going from ECC. In twenty plus years I left three times and came back because of work moves. All I ever received was love and prayers. Sure, I saw a few leave a Church with a burr in their saddle, but usually it was  not a healthy decision, meaning they left because they didnít agree with something. Like living with the neighbors wife etc.

I had an interesting discussion with a friend who completed their undergraduate degree at North Western. One of the reoccurring problems with Church disgruntlement is that many think Church is a democracy, and in fact Church is a theocracy, as taught at NW.  If you donít agree with the theocracy move on, pray for them and let God take care of it. Blondes comments are immature at best, and I believe just trying to stir the pot.

Iran is a theocracy. Churches are not.

Agatha? Your ok with someone sending crude emails like Blonde did?  And some wonder why they get lumped together. Also Agatha, I wonder if the pastor of your current Church would agree with your advocacy of Blonde type tactics?

You must have missed her response a few posts ago where she said:

"And yes I disagree with Blondeís  methods.  

Maybe Blonde needs some help or support.  Not sure."
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2018, 05:17:32 pm »

Yes, missed Agathaís post, and I agree, blonde should get help.

The Christian Church gets their direction from the Bible, or God, and run the Church accordingly. Not all Churches interpretation of the Bible are exactly the same, and have different theocracy. I havenít seen a Christian Church that votes on how they will interpret the Bible, well except the Lutheran Church which has split over ignoring some aspects of the Bible.

Iran gets their direction from Ayatollah, and his theocracy can be very deadly.
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2018, 07:20:54 am »

IsthisReal:

Well, you certainly don't know me, even if you think you do.  You are in no place to judge my spirituality. We have belonged to 4 churches since we left EC, and I suppose you call that church hopping but I don't. They were churches that God led us to for a time, and where we and our kids grew/came to know Jesus. Six of our kids and a slew of grandkids belonged to the one we go to now so we migrated over there after ten years at a church where we had many special friendships  and spiritual growth. We are now so happy and satisfied in the not perfect church where we go, and have found precious ways to serve and be connected. We are so blessed by many friendships there and love the preaching. Mostly we are satisfied with Jesus.

What I ridicule and find fault with on this forum is philosophies, ideas, and authoritarian rule and structure of stuff that I experienced at a GC church.  And the way that it can damage people and mess with them and confuse them. Often, these are not understood until a person leaves and looks back at ways that Scripture was twisted to give way too much power and influence and control to the pastors.
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Huldah
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« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2018, 07:56:22 am »

I am also not making up all the disgruntled people I know personally on this forum that have spent over a decade church hopping and never being satisfied in any church they attend. This does say something to me about the character of your members.

Well, given that this is a fairly small forum, and that there are probably no more than about ten regular posters (other than current ECC members), how many people could that possibly be? Seriously, what is the actual count of active forum members who've left ECC, whom you know personally, who've been permanently unable to settle into new church home because they're never satisfied?

If you'd rather not answer, fine, but the claim of "all the disgruntled people I know personally on this forum that have spent over a decade church hopping" sounds a bit dramatic when you can't possibly be talking about more than three or four people, at max.

Also consider that, if you've been burned badly enough at one church, that can have a serious impact on your ability to bond with a new church family. Once bitten, twice shy, and all that.
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