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Author Topic: To any parents of students attending WCCC  (Read 17073 times)
trthskr
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« on: March 27, 2011, 12:06:29 pm »

Re-consider spending your money at an expensive, private institution if your student has become involved with this group.  The level of involvement expected does not allow for any extra time to be spent in other extracurricular activities, and a high level of commitment to their education will be discouraged. 

I learned this the hard way.

I have now graduated and am not able to secure any position that I am interested in, because my resume is pretty much empty.  I could mention my level of involvement with the church in my interviews, but it still makes me visibly upset to talk about it and it's not exactly easy to explain that I was in a cult for the first three years of college, without looking crazy.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 07:16:55 pm »

Dear TruthSeeker,

Been there.  Done that.  God can give you a promise that will far exceed the loss you have suffered and fulfill it amazingly!.  I have experienced this in many ways.  Those in Jeremiah and Isaiah are particularly encouraging because they speak of GOD giving us a double portion of blessing for our suffering.  He has really done this for me!

Hopeful,

Janet
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 01:22:15 am »

Re-consider spending your money at an expensive, private institution if your student has become involved with this group.  The level of involvement expected does not allow for any extra time to be spent in other extracurricular activities, and a high level of commitment to their education will be discouraged. 

I learned this the hard way.

I have now graduated and am not able to secure any position that I am interested in, because my resume is pretty much empty.  I could mention my level of involvement with the church in my interviews, but it still makes me visibly upset to talk about it and it's not exactly easy to explain that I was in a cult for the first three years of college, without looking crazy.

Without disregarding trthskr's experience, I wonder if this is the case for most of the students that are involved with WCCC? Is it true that most of them do not have relevant experience or are unable to secure jobs once they graduate? I ask this because I know many people that would say otherwise.
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 06:13:01 am »

I find it hard to believe that WCCC is to hold the sole blame for someone not being able to find a job. There are quite a few pharmacy, actuarial science, and music majors that attend the church (which are the hardest majors at Drake) and I know many older people who have graduated and have jobs in their field. I also know quite a few older people who are now pursuing master's degrees in various fields. Trthsker, I don't know your story, but maybe things have changed since you were in the church? What happened while you were there?




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Time2Write
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 08:07:05 am »

I know many people who have gotten good jobs and are moving forward in productive ways at WCCC. There is, however, some truth to what trthskr has pointed out. Many of us were told to commit to the church above our jobs if it meant leaving the city. The assumption from Walnut Creek leadership was that the work of the church was a higher calling than your vocation. My belief has always been that our vocational calling is also a calling of the Lord (because not everybody is called into ministry).

I would say that everyone here would agree that Walnut Creek emphasizes the importance of their church in the mission of reaching people for the gospel. The tension that comes into play is when you bring in a mindset that there is no other church doing what you are doing. Whether or not you care to admit it or not, there is a mindset there that no other churches are as serious about the gospel as Walnut Creek or Great Commission. Work and other areas which the Lord has entrusted to man are secondary to the work of evangelism. Because evangelism and the evangelist are seen as the most important work and the most important people, all other work diminishes in light of this. There are many, such as myself, who over time became unable to see the value in placing effort in anything outside of the church, including friends and family (especially if they showed no interest in hearing a gospel presentation). Classes were also seen as unimportant because Matthew 6:33 was often misquoted and you were told that you would be provided for as long as you did the work of the gospel (a sort of prosperity gospel). Taking a job that would lead you away from the church was seen as wanting to go after the world and its riches. People who gave up jobs to stay in town are still seen as more kingdom minded than people who make lots of money. Yet, ironically, they had no problem asking students to give thousands of dollars each year for their buildings.

Ironically, in their attempt to evangelize their world, they have isolated themselves from it all the more. How many Bible studies do you need to go to in one week? How many outreach events do you need? How many people do you have to disciple? Because no matter how many (and over there, it is always a question of how many), there is always somebody doing more.

Not everybody in controlling groups has the same experience, but it is important to realize that if this wasn't your experience, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

One BIG FLAG that I always had was how they spent the money we gave them. I don't know of any accountability, meaning that we never saw how much came in and how it was spent. I share this because the church I am now attending does this regularly. I heard that Josh MacDowell cost the church $8,000. I have no clue how much they spend for the cheap staff labor. I'm sure the other speakers they have lined up won't be all that cheaper.
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anonymoustoday
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 09:13:37 am »

Numbers games and semantics games. 

GCX manipulates kids away from study and subsequently from good grades and graduation, then they call these kids 'the committed ones' or 'the core group.' 

At the same time they call those kids who focus more on study than on the hurch 'the peripheral ones' or 'the fringe group.' 

Then when caught having to justify their tactics with the kids, they point to 'the fringe group' as evidence that the church does not steer kids away from study, good grades, and graduation. 

They get to have their cake and eat it too. 
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 09:32:43 am »

"Not everybody in controlling groups has the same experience, but it is important to realize that if this wasn't your experience, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen."

I'm not trying to say those things haven't happened, I just haven't experienced anything remotely close to that in my time at Drake and at WCCC. I think it's important when a blog post is titled something like "To any parents of students attending WCCC," both positive and negative feedback should be avaliable to those searching.

To say (or imply) that ALL GC churches, people, etc. are doing/saying/living these things is not an accurate representation of the church I'm in (in my experience). That was my only point. I'm really not trying to offend anyone or disregard anyone's negative experiences.
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Time2Write
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 10:14:27 am »

Guest, I am in agreement that ALL GC churches, people etc. are not doing those things. I started my post by agreeing that not all people have this problem. In closing, I also shared that just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. To illustrate this point, if a person is being bullied by somebody you are associated with who has never bullied you, it doesn't mean that it isn't happening to them or that the behavior isn't wrong. In such a case, even though it doesn't effect you, once it is brought to light, you should never tolerate it! Just to be clear, I am in agreement with you that both sides should be able to post freely on this forum. I also didn't feel you disregarded anyone's opinions or experiences.

I personally am in agreement with you that WCCC does not bear the sole responsibility for people being unable to get a job. I don't know if you go to WCCC or not. If you have been there for some period of time and have been involved in one of the younger congregations, you would know exactly what the concern is and how it has permeated into every level of the fellowship.

If you are aware of the behaviors of controlling groups, there is an aspect called, "sacred science" in which participants see their pursuit of the great cause as superior to other pursuits of life and see their group as being the only group which has the solution. I believe that GC (more specifically WCCC) sees their efforts in evangelism as superior to other churches (and other movements). The mentality is that if they have the answer to the world's problems, what else is there to live for. A young person will get caught up in this and do whatever it takes to keep the cause going. Many groups, political parties, religious movements etc., recruit this way, by going after young impressionable people.

I would encourage you to read this excerpt from "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" and see if there are not at least a few warnings you can pick up on. Even if this doesn't change your place in life in regards to which church you attend, it should at least put you on guard against dangerous practices.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html#Milieu Control

My personal experience was that I saw all of those aspects of that list within GC and WCCC. However, I didn't see it clearly until after I left. Keep posting. I'd love to know what you think of this article and if you see any of these tendencies or practices in place. They are quite subtle, but they are there (at least they are in WCCC).
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LucyB
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 02:15:23 pm »

just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. To illustrate this point, if a person is being bullied by somebody you are associated with who has never bullied you, it doesn't mean that it isn't happening to them or that the behavior isn't wrong. In such a case, even though it doesn't effect you, once it is brought to light, you should never tolerate it!

It has been a few years since I was at WCCC, but it bothered me that students graduated and were hired on as "staffers" instead of being encouraged to pursue their careers. I didn't understand and didn't ask questions. It worried me that those students were being derailed, but I didn't say anything because it didn't affect me directly. Now I wish I had voiced my concern.
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Another story
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 06:11:33 pm »

I think that there are probably as many stories to be told as there are people that attend WCCC.

Since I started getting involved with WCCC, I have actually started doing better in school and progressing in my chosen career path. A lot of this was because of the influence of other people in the group that I am close to. One of my best friends was a couple of years head of me in school and she was looked at as being a leader in WCCC. She always had her work completed ahead of time and would set aside time to study regularly so that she never had to worry at the last minute. A lot of this was due to her background and her personality but she definitely rubbed off on me and quite a few others that I know of. Although she no longer attends the church, she continues to be good friends with a lot of people in the church and still encourages us to work at all we do with all out heart. I know that I can say that I am in a better place academically because of my involvement with WCCC.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 06:14:45 pm »

Time2Write,

 "I believe that GC (more specifically WCCC) sees their efforts in evangelism as superior to other churches (and other movements). The mentality is that if they have the answer to the world's problems, what else is there to live for."

Wow!  That really is their bottom-line message.  It was to me from 1980-1990.

Janet
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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 06:42:17 pm »

I have now graduated and am not able to secure any position that I am interested in, because my resume is pretty much empty.  I could mention my level of involvement with the church in my interviews, but it still makes me visibly upset to talk about it and it's not exactly easy to explain that I was in a cult for the first three years of college, without looking crazy.

I had a similar realization after graduation, the majority of my "experience" and "extra circulars" on my resume were pre-GCM. For those who choose to go on the Leadership Training experiences during the summer it may be even more pronounced. I was lucky in that I did not do any of these activities so I still had career relevant summer work experience.
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 07:45:46 pm »

I think I missed something. What is WCCC?
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LucyB
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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 07:55:11 pm »

Walnut Creek Community Church in Des Moines
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France
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2011, 06:36:16 pm »

I would say that everyone here would agree that Walnut Creek emphasizes the importance of their church in the mission of reaching people for the gospel. The tension that comes into play is when you bring in a mindset that there is no other church doing what you are doing. Whether or not you care to admit it or not, there is a mindset there that no other churches are as serious about the gospel as Walnut Creek or Great Commission.

I agree with what you have written here. The elitist mindset that Walnut Creek-ers have was one of the things that made me start feeling like something was not right. WCCC is viewed s being ahead of the pack in reaching people for Christ. While I don't deny that a lot of people are reached, there are also a lot of other churches around that are also doing the same thing. 

Work and other areas which the Lord has entrusted to man are secondary to the work of evangelism. Because evangelism and the evangelist are seen as the most important work and the most important people, all other work diminishes in light of this. There are many, such as myself, who over time became unable to see the value in placing effort in anything outside of the church, including friends and family (especially if they showed no interest in hearing a gospel presentation). Classes were also seen as unimportant because Matthew 6:33 was often misquoted and you were told that you would be provided for as long as you did the work of the gospel (a sort of prosperity gospel). Taking a job that would lead you away from the church was seen as wanting to go after the world and its riches. People who gave up jobs to stay in town are still seen as more kingdom minded than people who make lots of money. Yet, ironically, they had no problem asking students to give thousands of dollars each year for their buildings.


Work, school, family, friends are all secondary to evangelism. If you miss work or classes because of the mission trip that you're on, it's all good. But if you miss a church event because of work or school, you weren't committed enough. You took the easiest classes you could to get by so you had more time for evangelism. Woe to anybody that took a job outside Des Moines. They are basically considered selfish, worldly people unless of course you chose a job in a city where there was a sister church. International students are held on to by any means rather than letting them go home. The church would rather pay for them to continue going to school or give them a job or even get a religious worker visa for them just so they can continue going to church. And everybody that the church helps to stay in town, local or international, is basically indentured to the church.

Ironically, in their attempt to evangelize their world, they have isolated themselves from it all the more. How many Bible studies do you need to go to in one week? How many outreach events do you need? How many people do you have to disciple? Because no matter how many (and over there, it is always a question of how many), there is always somebody doing more.


More, more, more. That's always what you need to be doing in order to stay in the "in group" and to be viewed as a committed member.


WCCC isn't all bad. There are good people there that really do love the Lord and want to serve Him with all of them. But the system is flawed from the top and as a result, it's not a healthy place to be in.
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