Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
March 28, 2024, 01:54:46 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Could It Be Brainwashing?  (Read 38057 times)
MarthaH
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62



« on: September 29, 2010, 06:13:18 am »

I remember a speaker talking at a GC conference one time about accusations he gets from time to time about being brainwashed. It is interesting how he didn't blatantly deny it, but instead misused Romans 12:1-2 and emphasized the "renewing of your mind". He didn't say, "brainwashing", but said we have been, "brain-dirtied" by this world. I remember feeling a little uncomfortable by that analogy.

As I am trying to heal and get a clear picture of what I came out of, I recently asked the question, "was I brainwashed?" It seems like such an extreme to even consider the thought. Wouldn't that make me naive, gullible and just plain out stupid?

Anyhow, I read this article and thought I would share it. I think a lot of things could apply to what I experienced over the years and it actually helped me forgive myself for allowing myself to be duped:
http://icsahome.com/infoserv_respond/info_educators.asp?Subject=Building+Resistance:+Tactics+for+Counteracting+Manipulation

Hope it helps or at least gives cause for thoughtful reflection.
Logged
AgathaL'Orange
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1182



« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2010, 10:27:33 am »

I'm only halfway through and ¡wowza! this is good!
Logged

Glad to be free.
newcreature
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2010, 11:43:09 pm »

Thanks for posting that link, Martha. The title of the article really caught my attention: “Building Resistance: Tactics for Counteracting Manipulation and Unethical Hypnosis in Totalistic Groups.” Before reading “Marching to Zion” (M2Z) by Larry Pile, I don’t recall ever hearing the word “totalist.” Now I have read the word in several recent articles. Larry used it in his acronym TACO (Totalist Aberrant Christian Organizations) to refer to Christian groups with many of the characteristics described in your link.

The concluding sentence in the final paragraph is very sobering to me, especially since I am aware of “professional persuaders” who are still manipulating others:

“As our understanding of hypnotic communication and our ability to subtly influence behavior increases, it may become the obligation of the professional persuader (the hypnotist, the psychotherapist) to assist clients to develop their resistance to manipulative groups and individuals.”

Here is another sobering news story that dove-tails quite remarkably with your article. (Well, at least in my mind it made a tangible connection.)

I was watching 60 Minutes Sunday night and tonight I found that TV segment online:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5153459n&tag=related;photovideo

It is the true story of mistaken identity when a rape victim picked the wrong man out of a photo lineup. The innocent man went to jail. The conclusion is an amazing story of justice and forgiveness; so that is reason enough to watch it. But in regards to the subtle, yet very powerful, use of manipulation, watch the results of a study by a psychology professor at Iowa State University. Watch the amazing results when he positively reinforces a false conclusion (from  the 5:25 to the 6:25 minute mark in the video).
Logged
MarthaH
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62



« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2010, 07:24:15 am »

Wow, I just watched that! Yes, I think the two dovetail quite nicely. After watching the 60 minutes segment I was almost crying at the end when the two had become such good friends. There may be a time we can reconcile relationships with the people who hurt us, but it may take a few years. I pray God would deliver many people who have hurt us and that they would find mercy and forgiveness when He does; just as Joseph's brothers were eventually forgiven by their little brother whom they sold into slavery. I suppose that will be another thread  Smiley

I have a thought or two on the statement you quoted:
“As our understanding of hypnotic communication and our ability to subtly influence behavior increases, it may become the obligation of the professional persuader (the hypnotist, the psychotherapist) to assist clients to develop their resistance to manipulative groups and individuals.”

I spoke with a former leader who also left and reached out to me. I found it really helpful as he explained certain things he participated in and disagreed with (or perhaps a better way to say it is that he exposed some of the tricks of the trade). He told me of a conference that he went to for leadership, and they brought in a Christian speaker/entertainer to teach them all how to give messages. He looks back on it now and thinks that while the intentions of the people attending were good in wanting to communicate their messages better, it also had a manipulative aspect to it.

Here's a thought I had after talking with him and reading the article and seeing the 60 Minutes segment. What was the environment like when I bought into the subtle false doctrines that were slipped in? So many things come to mind now. Here are a few:
1. A cool atmoshphere with a coffee shop or concert feel.
2. A performance by a cool band and participation in singing. This often felt like a rock concert, which is an important point for me. During concerts, I'm the type of person who really gets drawn in, dances, raise my hands (if it's Christian) and buy the cd and merchandise afterwards.
3. After that, a hip person comes up on stage (if it's on campus) and the spotlight is placed squarely on them. They are amplified.
4. Add in a couple jokes to warm up the crowd and show a video or two and all of the sudden they can share something very close to the truth (see Gen 3:1-5) and a person may consume it.

I also mustered up the courage recently and listened to a few messages online by some of the younger speakers (I think they may have stopped posting them now). Every message seemed to hit at some point on either evangelism, purity or unity/commitment. It's like a steady dripping that slowly works its way into your thinking.

I know of many people who made verbal and sometimes public commitments to stay in one church for life. Many of these verbal commitments seemed to come either during or right after conferences. I think a lot of unhealthy pressure comes during retreats and away from places where you can receive objective counsel before making such a big decision. I've heard so many people speak of the emotional mountaintop experience they have at conferences. While that isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, it does create an environment where ones guard can easily be let down.

All this to say, that if all it takes for the mind to be influenced is a simple diverting of one's attention and focus, a person attending these events should be aware of it. By the way, the Iowa college retreat this fall is called Focus  Shocked Wink
Logged
EverAStudent
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 716



WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2010, 01:21:49 pm »

Immediately after leaving GC, we became members of a Regular Baptist Church.  The pastor was fond of saying, "If you preach the Bible, people will come."  And come they did.  

The church grew so much in that year that they had to build a new one.  The lighting technician asked where they should install the dimmer switch panels for the new main auditorium.  The pastor asked why they needed dimmer switches.  The technician answered that all churches dim their lighting during the altar call to create a more compelling emotional atmosphere.

The pastor ordered that all the dimmer switches be removed from the plans.  He said if the gospel was not sufficiently compelling he was not going to manipulate a decision with lighting and emotional trickery!!!
Logged
MarthaH
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 62



« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 04:29:48 am »

How refreshing! Praise God! If you don't mind, could let me know the church, that would be great (pm is fine). Does anyone know of a church like that in Omaha?
Logged
certificatetips
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2



« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 12:57:57 am »

you will hear of a sociable young man "brainwashed" into hiding in a specially outfitted car trunk and murdering people. In the Elizabeth Smart case, a typical suburban youngster was so "brainwashed" by her captor, the story goes, that she had chances to escape and didn't. Patty Hearst went from carefree socialite to bank robber.
Certificate IV in Training and Assessment
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2520



« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 09:23:18 am »

Not sure how I managed to miss this thread two years ago. Wow, I just went to that link. Didn't have time to read it all yet, but this just popped out:

In order to influence or brainwash people, the following methods work best: isolate them in new surroundings apart from old friends or reference-points, provide them with instant acceptance from a seemingly loving group, keep them away from competing or critical ideas, provide an authority figure that everyone seems to acknowledge as having some special skill or awareness, provide a philosophy that seems logical and appears to answer all or the most important questions in life, structure all or most activities so that there is little time for privacy or independent action or thought, provide a sense of "us" versus "them," promise instant or imminent solutions to deep or long-term problems, and employ covert or disguised hypnotic techniques.
Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
araignee19
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 284



« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2012, 09:18:41 pm »

"Manipulators do not make things easy. People actually place more value on their actions if the task to be performed is somewhat unpleasant or difficult, even if it did not need to be unpleasant or difficult (Festinger, 1957). Corollary: making a task artificially "tough" typically makes it appear more meaningful and important than it may in fact be."

That is so true. I know lots of times when I was involved in this GC where I convinced myself things were tougher than they really were. I did things, like deprive myself of sleep, in order to feel like I was "fighting the good fight." After I left the group, God put me in a place of extreme, forced restfulness (there was nothing to do, at work or free time, other than sleep and relax), so I was forced to rest. But for a few months, I fought to make myself busy. I felt worthless without that sense of struggle and being overly busy.
Logged
Outtathere
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 45



« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2014, 02:08:19 pm »

After watching this, I felt that some of my GC best friends in college were in fact, Winter Soldiers who had been brainwashed.
http://video.wired.com/watch/science-friction-wired-edition-how-to-brainwash-someone
Logged
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2022, 06:39:37 pm »


Could It Be Brainwashing?  

Examining Similar Methods in the NXIVM Cult



“Escaping the NXIVM Cult” is a 2019 movie about the true story of a mother (who is most known for her role in Dynasty) trying to save her daughter from the NXIVM cult. Though the gradual brainwashing is more overt and the abuse is also sexual, some of these same methods, motivation and manipulation to get people to join, tirelessly serve, and never leave were practiced by McCotter (and his indoctrinated leaders,) yet more subtly.

Dominating this entire group is pressure to please and SERVE the man at the top (who claims he’s an “Approved” and an Unquestionable Spiritual Authority); which is quite similar to McCotter and his rule rather than the guidance of the Holy Spirit and accuracy of the Bible. Also more insidious for us in GCx is that God’s name and “approval” was invoked to get us to carry out things the Holy Spirit never intended for us to believe or do.

It seems an eye-opening exercise would be to list each deceptive and manipulative method that occurs in this NXIVM cult according to the account here; and to compare them to those employed by GCx.

Rick Alan Ross (who is portrayed in the movie) was one of Cult Researchers involved in exposing NXIVM through testimonies of its defectors. NXIVM cult leaders were convicted and received criminal sentencing as recent as 2019, especially for their recruitment of young women into sex trafficking.


Trigger warning: codependent relationship grooming, sexual grooming, and sexual abuse are depicted



Link to Actual Movie Page:

https://www.netflix.com/title/81519788


« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 11:26:23 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2022, 09:55:16 pm »


A Flood of Words


Oh my goodness! When I listened to this message today, I was astounded that God had specifically explained brainwashing -in the Bible!! It’s late tonight, so I hope to post the specific verses tomorrow. If you listen to this teaching (link below) about “water” you should get it too. Pay attention to what he says about “A Flood of Words.”

That’s just what happened to us in GCx and why it was so hard to leave. We were overwhelmed by a constant flood of the same lies that carried us away from God’s Will to their own. (I don’t mean our eternal salvation was lost, but our daily joy and strength from individually following Christ was interrupted.) Many of us heard these lies at length at least 3 times a week. People in GCx have had these repetitive themes told them from teachers supposedly anointed by God to carry a message to us. Most of us have heard thousands of such teachings adding up to several thousands of hours. In addition, we were discouraged from listening to most other Christian teaching outside GCx.

At the time, we didn’t think anyone was twisting our arm BECAUSE we came to accept and believe these lies ourselves through overwhelming volume and repetition; and reinforcement of them through our “disciplers.” Though actually, fear and shame were used to condition us to receive and obey them. Based on the scripture highlighted in this message below, the answer is conclusively that it is indeed “brainwashing” or “mind-flooding.”

Is it possible those still teaching them still believe them?

The initiator and perpetuator, McCotter, of this destructive flood of words was accomplishing his selfish ambition to build his own kingdom through them. I believe there is a dark source at work behind them. It seems (according to the Bible) that believers can succumb through pride, sinful ambition and other temptations to be agents delivering such “doctrines.”



Water - More Than Words - Pastor Robert Morris

https://youtu.be/d9Khq4vIROE



« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 08:08:12 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2022, 09:24:04 pm »

Some of the scripture used in the above highlighted message:



1Save me, O God,
for the waters have come up to my neck.
2I sink in the miry depths,
where there is no foothold.
I have come into the deep waters;
the floods engulf me.


14Rescue me from the mire,
do not let me sink;
deliver me from those who hate me,
from the deep waters.
15Do not let the floodwaters engulf me
or the depths swallow me up
or the pit close its mouth over me.

Psalm 69



15So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

Revelation 12   NKJV



4The words of the mouth are deep waters,
but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream.

Proverbs 18



« Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 08:38:56 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2022, 08:41:44 pm »



I am waking up out of the mind control and seeing the truth of how distorted GCC is and how real and close and loving God is. I also was in GCC for 18 years and consider it a miracle of Gods grace that I am out and out of mind control. The mind control piece, in my experience, is the most damaging aspect. My heart breaks for the people I love who are still blind and trapped by it.
-Cult Proof


What is so very dangerous is when you move in these directions apart from the Holy Spirit. This is so often an afterthought in GCx philosophy... I believe they are reverting to the old covenant standards... As I step back and compare the GCx philosophy to Scripture, I see a consistent disconnect which I think is related to pursuing behavior change rather than true intimacy with Christ. ...

One of the subtle things that I look back at now as a form of control was how people would talk about this website and a few others. It would come across in the most subtle way that people who left were bitter and unforgiving people. This is how they would defend against arguments posted on sites such as this. It did make it difficult to process the things which were being shared. What was also implied is that if you left, you would become like that and if you dared express your experiences, you are unforgiving and unloving. John Hopler in effect, said just that in his recently published paper.
-MarthaH


I can only speak from my own experience (which was post-college), but maybe it can help.  All the while I was hearing (and following) what turned out to be bad advice, I felt this small, internal voice saying, "This isn't right.  Something's wrong here." I know now that it was the gentle voice of the Holy Spirit.  I was a very young Christian when I started with GC, and I hadn't learned how to discern God's voice and will, so I didn't listen when I should have.
-BTDT


We were often told outright and through many implications what was required of us. To be "teachable" to the elders by never questioning them and always being mindlessly submissive to them. ... I was witness to elders that told someone, who considered leaving that they could possibly be struck dead if they left. (Using an example of a girl who left GCx and was killed in an accident.) I know others in GCx churches heard this spiritually abusive lesson. ...  

As I began to be "discipled" into the GCx organization, I was definitely manipulated and even shamed into making unhealthy choices.  (I say this because healthy churches I attended later did not audaciously impose or deceptively threaten me on such personal decisions.)  I felt shame and self-doubt creep into my soul through the critical sizing up I encountered, often labeled as “reproofs”.
-Janet


I would call this 'church think'.  I remember every moral decision, lesson or judgement would require some "leader" to come up with a 'church think' - i.e. the way the followers should think about this subject.  And the way this thinking would take would always be the most extreme.  By taking the most extreme interpretation, the most extreme of stances, this shows how 'faithful' you are. They, by stating this 'faithfulness' in public from the pulpit or in small group, or when in a group prayer group, the group then reinforces this as 'favorable behavior'. ...It is such a tight, controlling environment where no one thinks for themselves and you become numb to the experience to think for yourself, much less be available to listen to God's small still voice.
-calgal



« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 07:45:37 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2022, 02:14:31 pm »



I even attended a church that has been mentioned as one of the "good" ones in these forums. ... The woman who discipled me was so sweet and encouraging at first. I felt like I was being connected with a great family of believers and I felt very built up. As soon as I started to have theological disagreements or even disagreements about my own life choices (whether or not to attend grad school, get married, etc). I was told I was being "rebellious" by not allowing others to "speak into my life."

One of my friends was labeled as a "wolf in sheep's clothing" because he strongly disagreed with the church
and when he spoke out about it it just so happened that people agreed with him and stopped wanting to attend Thursday home-group, Sunday service, weekend social events, and all of the other time commitments we were "encouraged" to participate in. By the way, his primary complaint about the church was that is was controlling. ...Again, my church has only ever been mentioned in these forums as one of the good churches that supposedly wasn't as bad as the others. All this to say, GCM is really no different than all of the other GCx groups and CCN is literally the exact same thing under a new name.
-dreamer


I began attending WCCC [GCx Church] for a few years as a college student. After graduation I began attending the Westtown Church (or Walnut Creek West as it is now known). ... All I ever heard is that if you do leave, it's because you have fallen into sin and you are being deceived by the devil. It's the perfect trap because if you do leave and then criticize the church they can disregard everything you say. WCCC was always preached as being superior to all other churches, so there's no reason to leave unless you have become ensnared by sin in your life.
-GB    [left ~ 2013]


With regard to the brothers and sisters in the GCA [another GCx alias], I do recall vividly a sort of cookie cutter mentality in which younger Christians were encouraged to develop the personality traits of older Christians within the fellowship. Scary how controlling they were, right down to micromanaging our lives. ... Isolation has always been the GCA's best friend. They get you alone and they distance you from objective thought. The next thing you know, they are controlling your time and finances, as well as the content of your life. And they lay a guilt trip on you if you fail to obey in the least of their directions.
damaged_goods


I wonder if this is not a symptom of the bigger problem, the "convictions"/doctrine that is taught is accepted at such a personal level by the members that an... [a] question to this teaching is seen as an insult to the person. It scares me to look back at how much I did that when I was in the church.  I am the first to admit that I readily internalized the ideas and values that were taught by GC and made them "attributes" of me.  Maybe this should be another thread, but has anyone else seen this pattern of the ideas of GC becoming the person or rather well guarded attributes of the person?
-sistanchrist


I was deceived into being a part of a group using mind control techniques, taking scripture out of context and accepting unhealthy boundaries because I had no idea that was what was going on. ... Given the culture of Evergreen [GCx Church] which includes a dishonest style of communication spiritualized by labeling normal communication as gossip or slander, it is not surprising that some current members are finding normal discourse difficult. ... The longer someone has lived within an environment of unhealthy boundaries the more difficult it may be to see with honesty and clarity what is really going on.
-OneOfMany



Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2022, 08:59:07 pm »



Until the manipulation of scripture, mind control, time demands, and abusive tendencies of several of their autonomous churches are stopped, there is still a problem and people should be very wary of this group... PARENTS - WATCH OUT FOR THIS HURTFUL GROUP AS YOU SEND YOUR CHILDREN OFF TO COLLEGE CAMPUSES!
-Angry


I was deceived into being a part of a group using mind control techniques, taking scripture out of context and accepting unhealthy boundaries... This is probably in part because of the way we were taught to stop our mind from following thought patterns that questioned what Evergreen [GCx Church] leadership told us. It is an automatic process so many are not even aware that they do it.

I never realized how warped my view of God and how warped my understanding of the Word was until after I left.  I thought GCx was the only way to think.
-wastedyearsthere


I spent many years going to the “elders” for their counsel or permission on matters concerning which I should have been following the dictates of my own conscience. This mind-set served only to perpetuate my own immaturity.
-Columbus Old-Timer


I started to believe that what my leader said was God's will, as others in the group convinced me of this, as did sermons on leadership. I began to de-emphasize the role of the Holy Spirit within me, its ability to communicate to me, and my personal relationship with God (something that had been so emphasized in my first church), and in its place was a series of men whom I was to obey and follow.
-puff of purple smoke


I've written about some of the abusive things I witnessed or experienced... The one that probably upset me most at the time was monitoring the private conversations of members to ensure loyalty to the leadership. The incident I experienced was so invasive and disturbing, I'll quote a slightly edited portion of that original post here:  There was a sister in our house who functioned as a de facto informant to the deacons. This was truly one of the darkest aspects of life in my GC church.

A friend of mine was very frustrated with some of the things going on in the fellowship. One evening, she poured out her frustrations to me over dinner at the brothers' house. The informant overheard the discussion. Late that night or the next night (I forget the exact timing), I received a visit from two deacons who wanted to know how the disgruntled sister's words had affected my thinking. When I told them how upset and confused I was by their visit (I told them it reminded me of the Spanish Inquisition), they went back to my friend, shamed her for “confusing” me, and made her come and apologize. I can hardly overemphasize how devastating this kind of thought control was.
-Huldah



« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 09:00:38 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
PietWowo
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 287



« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2022, 02:11:28 am »

I remember a speaker talking at a GC conference one time about accusations he gets from time to time about being brainwashed. It is interesting how he didn't blatantly deny it, but instead misused Romans 12:1-2 and emphasized the "renewing of your mind". He didn't say, "brainwashing", but said we have been, "brain-dirtied" by this world. I remember feeling a little uncomfortable by that analogy.

As I am trying to heal and get a clear picture of what I came out of, I recently asked the question, "was I brainwashed?" It seems like such an extreme to even consider the thought. Wouldn't that make me naive, gullible and just plain out stupid?

Anyhow, I read this article and thought I would share it. I think a lot of things could apply to what I experienced over the years and it actually helped me forgive myself for allowing myself to be duped:
http://icsahome.com/infoserv_respond/info_educators.asp?Subject=Building+Resistance:+Tactics+for+Counteracting+Manipulation

Hope it helps or at least gives cause for thoughtful reflection.


The thing with the word "brainwash" is that it implies something bad... i.e. you hear some lie or something over and over and believe it.  Of course if you look at that word like a foreigner, who wouldn't know the word, "brainwash" can sound like a positive thing. It's good to be washed. So, that speaker at that conference, who applied Romans 12:1,2 to brainwash, kind of did a play on words... I would think that if you caught this teacher off guard and asked him if it was a good idea to be brainwashed, he probably wouldn't quote Romans 12... but would talk about the negative aspect of it. I don't think that he was saying that it is a good idea to be brainwashed, or deceived, or manipulated into believing a lie. I think he was just doing a play on words.

Of course that doesn't mean that you were or were not brainwashed... Actually, I think that the media brainwashes a lot of people and students are brainwashed into believing all sorts of woke stuff and evolution.
Logged
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2023, 09:08:04 pm »



Unfortunately, in my experience leaders were too willing to take "short cuts" to results they thought best by manipulating people. When the manipulation was exposed, it deeply hurt the people who had been manipulated, with sometimes tragic results (divorce, mental illness, homelessness, alcoholism). The people who pointed out this sin (and that's what it is) were excommunicated or shunned by other church members for "slander". ... My experience was that people felt "moved by God" after they were told by elders and leaders how they should feel "moved by God".  In some circumstances, elders and leaders were specifically planning how to make a person feel "moved by God" without that person's knowledge.  That's dangerous, and I saw evil result from it.
-Valley Noir


Looking back GCC was so misguided, and too many were doing their own control games, all in the name of Jesus.  Kids that were secretly meeting to determine the fates of others rather than simply letting God's will be done.
-OSU Solid Rock


From my personal experience in the group, a member internalizes: We cannot be trusted to discern our own path and make our own choices - [to we are provided with needed] direction.  We are unsafe and vulnerable without our leaders - [to we receive needed] protection.  God has given these leaders to me for my own benefit - [to they are divinely] commissioned.

“Our response to our human authorities is one of the clearest and most practical indicators of our heart attitude towards God….Whether we grumble and rebel or respond with joy, honor, and obedience, indicates either a heart of disobedience or of faith and humility toward God. In this way, God can use human authority to develop Christ-like character in us in a very practical way—by revealing the true nature of our hearts before the Lord and bringing us to repentance and growth in our faith.” (from GCLI, Great Commission Leadership Institute, 2017)
Member Internalizes: Obeying leaders is basically the same as obeying God.  If we resist human leadership it is because we are in sin, not because they are wrong.  If we have a problem with a leader’s authority, what is required is repentance and growth on our part.

“God instituted leadership and authority to help unite a group not only around the obvious truths of the scripture, but around particular ways and approaches to living those truths out in the kingdom.”
Member internalizes: There are certain ways to live according to biblical TRUTHS and God instituted leadership, which also means there are lots of indisputable truths in the bible that my leaders must teach me.
-Rebel in a Good Way



Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2023, 10:17:31 pm »



A few months ago, when I was still thinking about whether or not to leave my GCC church / though there were huge, glaring issues - my pastors decided to interrupt our Friday night groups for a series of special meetings. They were about God's vision for the local church. On one such Friday night, I fought tears throughout the entire meeting because my pastor described people who leave the church as follows;

"Some people will visit here the way they visit a restaurant. They'll come regularly, maybe even for years. but one day they'll think, 'Oh I don't like the lights in here, let's go somewhere else.' and then visit another restaurant. And another. It's always about them and what they want. A church is not a restaurant! It's a commitment! Leaving a church is like divorcing your spouse."

I was struggling so hard with the thought of leaving my congregation. I didn't want to leave because of personal preference, but because there were things in our church that simply did not coincide with God's word. Things like sound teaching, or true discipleship. Hearing my pastor talk this way about a struggle so deep and tangible in my own heart discouraged me so deeply that I went home and cried for like half an hour. It wasn't just that I felt attacked. He was making fun of me, though indirectly. He made it seem like there was no legitimate reason to leave. And to compare it to MARRIAGE?! Geeeezzzeee. I bringing this up just to say that the thought behind this kind of statement of commitment prevails. It's 2018.

-Wingless_Butterfly    



Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Janet Easson Martin
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1898



« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2023, 09:50:33 pm »



During a sermon, a [GCx] pastor actually said there are no more (or hardly any) false teachings nowadays. I was so shocked when I heard this, I couldn’t hear the rest of his message. How dare he make such statement when the Bible is full of warning about false teachers and deceptions. From that message, I concluded the pastor was not about God’s agenda.
-ForwardMove


I remember the labels at the great commission church. I remember seeing the labels that were put on those who left... I remember they would speak about topics to keep you in your place, keep it inclusive, and to get you to think that it would be slandering. I had a discussion with the pastors at Candlewood [GCx Church] about justification. The pastors told me that anyone in the church was walking higher than those outside of the church and could do no wrong. I saw that day that they would assume the worst of those who left or were not apart of the church before me and knew what I risked if I left.

During my time in the GCC church they would use the term FAT:faithful/available/trustworthy so you wouldn't leave. If they thought you weren't committed enough or sharing enough, leaders would approach you. There were times I saw other labels being thrown around and learned to avoid them.
-Hope


I kept having the feeling of "mental disconnect" as every so often I would "wake up" and say to myself "Wow! Why do I feel like my life is being controlled by the Church." I found my family relationships deteriorate and the pressure to be "all for God and the lost" was overwhelming me.
-spiritman


The [GCx] model is simple...:
1. Do what we say unconditionally as we know better even though we may have less experience and knowledge.
2. Pay us what we tell you as we know how to spend your money and God says to give it to us.
3. Don't listen to anyone else as...we're afraid you'll go onto another church.
4. Don't leave because leaving us equals divorcing the Church.
5. Bring others into our franchise as we're the only church who understands everything.
6. If you find something contradictory, you are wrong and need to submit.
7. Wash, rinse, repeat.
-boboso



« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 09:54:15 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1