Forgive and forget

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.

[LaurineJackson]

For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.  Matthew 6:14-15 (NIV)

 

Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.” Matthew 18:21-22 (NAS)

 

But I say to you that hear, “Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, bless them that curse you, pray for them that despitefully use you.” Luke 6:27-28 (NIV)

 

You have heard that it was said, “Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.”  But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? Matthew 5:43-46 (NIV)

[:)]

Amen.

[Linda]

Great verses on forgiveness.

Did you find any verses on false teachers?

[EverAStudent]

Truly wonderful passages of Scripture.  But, I am pretty certain I have read expositions of them before...somewhere...perhaps in these essays on forgiveness:

http://thefaithfulword.org/2008januaryblogarchives.html#9    Unconditional Forgiveness
http://thefaithfulword.org/insincereapologies.html                Insincere Apologies
http://thefaithfulword.org/forgiveness.html                         What is biblical forgiveness?

Blessings!

[AgathaL'Orange]

It seems to me that holding a grudge is a bit different than "warning" others from hurt.  I wish someone would have warned me (well, a few people did, but I thought I knew better... turns out they were right) before I joined GC.

I'd like to have those 8 years back.  I'd like to have my 50K dollars back to give to people who really needed it (like victims of war or starving children or villages without clean water).  I'd like to have a degree in my original major that more expresses who I am as a person instead of fitting a narrowly defined role for women.  I'd also like to replace the heartache with good memories.  I think the people in GC mean well.  But that doesn't mean that my actions and their actions were without consequence or that they should be forgotten or allowed to continue.

Apparently you see no need to stop high control groups from continuing to damage families and lives.  That's very strange to me that you would feel that way, having all the information sitting here at your fingertips.

[BTDT]

Hi, Laurine -- those are wonderful verses on forgiveness.  I really wish you had added your feelings and thoughts -- letting us know why you shared those verses with us.

Did you experience some deep healing and forgiveness, and want to share that experience with us?
Are you working through forgiving some hurts done to you by or through Great Commission?
Are you telling us that we need to just get over it, in a passive-aggressive sort of way?

I'm not very fond of "verse-and-run" -- it's sort of like giving an answer without us really knowing the question.  Sort of a spiritual Jeopardy, if you will.

Please come back and talk to us some more.

B

[Rebekah]

Since my renewed anger about all of this (i.e. spanking), I've also started thinking about forgiveness again.

I was taken advantage of as a child, and, as a Christian kid, spent a lot of time trying to forgive that person. But I couldn't ever figure out what forgiveness really was. I knew I should do it but not how to or what I was actually supposed to do. So, thinking I was forgiving this person, I stuffed all the feelings down and tried not to think about it anymore.

I feel the same way now. I've equated forgiveness with not feeling angry anymore. I know I should forgive GC as a whole and certain people in particular.

I could probably eventually forget the past (I have a bad memory!), but I can't--and don't think it's responsible or loving to--turn away from what's still happening to my friends and family and all the others involved in the movement.

So, EAS, I read the article about biblical forgiveness you posted above and found this section illuminating:

"Forgiveness is an act of mercy extended by a victim to the one who is guilty of committing the offense, and forgiveness should not be confused with the victim’s effort or success at setting aside his anger toward the offender."

On a side note, I think GC encourages the anger-equals-unforgiveness idea in their sermons for their own gain. Anyone angry about things they've done or said is painted as a bitter, unforgiving person who isn't living according to Christ's love.

Maybe someday I'll be able to pray "Forgive them, Lord, for they know not what they do" but not today. Today I can only pray that someday I'll be able to pray for them, without minimizing, ignoring, or excusing what they're doing.

[EverAStudent]

Forgiveness is an action of releasing an offender from all future punishment. Forgiveness is not a psychological assent that you have overcome your emotional anger toward the offender. The notion of forgiveness being an overcoming of anger is alien to the Scriptures. Forgiveness is an action that exonerates the guilty from deserved punishment.

If a victim desires release from his anger and bitterness toward an offender, especially an unrepentant one, he must do as the Scriptures require: bless your offenders and enemies, pray for them, do good to them, and work to do loving actions toward them (James 5:13, 1 Corinthians 4:12, Romans 12:14, 12:20, Luke 6:35). This is not a magic formula, it is a set of actions. Anger must be intentionally resisted and turned over to God in prayer. Always bear in mind that Scriptures express that doing good includes rebuking sinners, correcting those who are in error, and refuting those who have espoused evil.  Doing good to enemies and offenders never includes lying to them or taunting them. Doing good also does not require denying or perverting justice.   

...

Ridding oneself of anger and bitterness regarding a wrong suffered is just plain intentional hard work. Gimmicks, like offering false forgiveness, may make great public spectacle but they only compound the real problem. Only Christ can make one feel safe and whole again. This He will do through the Holy Spirit.

You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD. You shall not hate your fellow countryman in your heart; you may surely reprove your neighbor, but shall not incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. (Leviticus 19:15-18)


http://thefaithfulword.org/forgiveness.html

[calgal]

I can tell you what helps me to heal:

My ex-husband knows nothing else.

He is wounded.

He comes from a wounded background and family.  This cult is the only thing that gives his life structure and meaning.  Somehow the structure and rigidness of this cult (intertwined with preverse teachings on spankings, etc) are intimately interconnected with deeply held and some correct Christian beliefs.  It would be hard for him to extradite these from each other.  I know this and I have empathy for him.  He is the one that that has no freedom.

On the other hand, I got out.  Two of my kids are out. 

My son said something interesting to me a few years ago after a tragic experience he endured.  He said, "Mom, my heart hurts, it feels so big that is going to burst.  I also feel like it is also going to be big enough to be able to relate to others in the future."

I told him that was called empathy. 

I think it is possible to be angry at their actions and yet have empathy for the broken person committing the action that is unaware of the impact of their actions.

Yet, that is how I have found healing ... you need to find your own path.

You are in my prayers.
Calgal

[Rebekah]

Thanks. My husband and I were talking about this last night, trying to work through what we thought forgiveness was. We agreed that it was ok to be angry about current injustices we see, and then I said that I shouldn't want to see them suffer because that is a sin. And he said that they already are suffering, like you said, calgal.

They (national leaders especially) seem so satisfied with themselves, their movement, their families, etc., but my husband thinks that's all put on. Even with completely buying into the beliefs and lifestyles, their lives are exhausting and, in my experience, guilt-ridden. They put up with it for the greater mission, but it's still probably isn't very fun. So, yes, empathy is the antidote to revenge-seeking.

I was also thinking that trying to forgive GC as an organization is like trying to forgive Wal-Mart. If you're a small business owner that Wal-Mart put out of business, you could try to forgive anybody who lied to you or employees who left your business to work for Wal-Mart or neighbors who stopped shopping at your store. But it's not really possible to forgive Wal-Mart as an entity.

Even if you forgive all those people who were part of your business going under, you'd still be angry at the way Wal-Mart treats its own workers or bullies the smaller companies that make the products into selling to it so cheaply, etc. And there isn't anyone in particular that you can forgive for those things because it's a business plan you're angry at.

GC is kind of like that. I can forgive certain people who have hurt those I love by their words and actions. But I don't have to forgive or show kindness to the way GC does business or its bad theology, if that makes sense.

[MarthaH]

Has anyone gone through the Spiritual Recovery Class at www.barnabasministry.com ?
One of my mentors suggested it to me. Go through it in order. It has helped me to let go of a lot and to see God still working in my life. So much grace!

[boboso]

Interesting this should come up. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and have concluded my experience with GCx tainted my future experience with any church. I'm more suspicious now more than ever and it still disgusts me to see how believers hang stones on necks.

That said, I've also noticed I still harbor resentment and even pathetic vengeance toward GCx kool-aid drinkers. It's not profitable at all and I've had to repent more than a few times.

I will testify to what I saw and heard when I was in the GCx mix. I will warn others accordingly. I will not (as much as I can), however, slander anyone in GCx. This means, I will tell the truth of what happened, but I will not make up stories about them or try to make them sound worse than they are. Yes, some of my experiences were awful, but I will only share them if it benefits the hearer to get back to Jesus.

Bottom line, this site has been a wonderful resource for me to commiserate and discuss GCx's madness. However, I think sometimes it goes too far.  

Here are my preemptive responses to expected responses:
1. No, I'm not saying that GCx is innocent.
2. No, I'm not saying that GCx is something good for Christianity in general.
3. No, I do not agree with the crazy authoritarian methods nor do I think they're remotely biblical.
4. No, I'm not trying to speed up anyone into "getting over it".

I'm saying (my opinions only):
1. It doesn't make anything better to harbor resentment.
2. It doesn't make anything change to hope for bad things on the "leaders".
3. It hurts this cause to assume any other motives besides what we've seen in their actions.

I'm also saying (my opinions only):
1. The "leadership" is more confused than evil. Doesn't make it better, I know.
2. Some in those churches choose to be there and know exactly what they're doing.
3. What happened to us was awful and we'll warn others who want to be a part of what we saw in Denver.
4. As much as I can, I'm going to stop rehashing resolved issues and worse, thinking about revenge.
5. It's perfectly fine to be angry, it's also important to be self-controlled and reasonable. (example: some GCx churches don't buy into this authoritarian tripe, some obviously do. Some "leaders" fully buy-in, some leaders (some I know personally) don't buy this tripe at all)

What is happening in GCx is just wrong and there are people that need this resource to help them get out. I would think it's in our collective interest to be as honest, as biblical, and as gentle as we can be.

[MarthaH]

I think that was a great post boboso. I agree with what you wrote 100% (or maybe I should put down 99% so that I can be a bit on the safe side).

I spoke with a friend recently who had an encounter with a former GC friend. I can totally relate to their experience as they felt they had something triggered by the person and were reliving that pain again. I also heard a wonderful message today by Dr. Charles Stanley on anger. It really reminded me of how we can't let anger and bitterness get control and cause us to sin. There is some anger that is good, but I have learned that it can take control and take me to a place that damages my relationships with others and my intimacy with the Lord.

Many of my friends and classmates are still in a GC church. I love them. I love a lot of the leaders as well. Funny, but so many of them know what is wrong and even hate what is wrong. Yet, the system keeps them from being heard or keeps them in fear from raising their voice. I guess tradition can be a snare. I am in full agreement that a forum like this should exist. I do hope it will remain civil. I had a very thoughtful person pm me last week saying that some of the harsher posts have kept her from reaching out to people. Often times when I am on here, there are many people who are lurking but never post anything. I hope they will reach out in some manner if they need help or are struggling in any way. I hope someone will reach out to you, boboso, as it seems you have a very thoughtful and balanced way of looking at things.

If anyone out there would like to ask questions, I have been finding that there are many people on this forum who listen and can help as you pray through your experiences.

One thing I have been doing whenever I feel like I am reverting back into old patterns of thought or behavior and experiencing hurt and anger is to pray for people I care for who are in GC. I think it is good to remember that there is a spiritual side to all of this and that the devil has a plan to ruin our lives. Prayer helps me to forgive and to deal with the real pain I experienced from being controlled so much. Of course, it also sets people free. I think I've seen more happen through praying for people's eyes to be opened than I have with any drawn out and exhausting debate (unless that debate was first covered with prayer). Point being, let us be sober minded and walk in a manner that glorifies the Lord and let us pray. Our God is mighty to save and deliver and is jealous for His loved ones.

What a great and humble God we serve! He is so sweet and gentle to His lambs. He has found me again and again and has covered all of my wounds with ointment. Until I am face to face with Him, I will strive to take my pains to Him and let the tears of my hurts flow freely in prayer, knowing and believing that on that magnificent day He will wipe them all away with His own hands. Thank you for all of the thoughtful posts. It is so comforting for me to know that I wasn't crazy with all of the things that I have experienced.

One last thing to add to my ramblings. I am growing closer to the Lord since I left. I think that is important to mention here. I am glad I left. It was difficult for me to leave, but the reward of knowing my Lord Jesus more and a clearer picture of who He is now makes it all worthwhile.

[Huldah]

Hi, Laurine -- those are wonderful verses on forgiveness.  I really wish you had added your feelings and thoughts -- letting us know why you shared those verses with us

If you click the URL in Laurine's profile, it takes you straight to a commercial site. Presumably the links in her signature line go to the same site. Her email address goes to a mailbox at the same domain.

In other words, this post appears to be spam. Spam with helpful Bible verses, but still spam.

Sparked an interesting discussion, though.

[BTDT]

In other words, this post appears to be spam. Spam with helpful Bible verses, but still spam.

Maybe spam,  but it doesn't seem like random spam to me.  It smacks of "drive-by".  Note that the commercial site (a wedding planning site) lists Norcross, GA as its address. At one time, there was a GC church in Norcross; I visited there once. 

I'm thinking that the original post, along with the anonymous "amen" immediately following, is just another "get over it" post from a current member of a GC church. I could easily be wrong about that.

[Huldah]

Ah. Maybe killing two birds with one stone, then? Deliver a drive-by message on behalf of the church, and boost the Google ratings for the commercial website, all at once.

Sorry to sound sarcastic. I just don't understand how anyone can insist on one hand that everybody else forgive GC for damaging people's lives, while refusing to forgive this forum for pointing out the problem.

[esperanza317]

I just posted to two other threads and still can't sleep.  Just read this thread and still think everyone is speaking my words.  Thank you Lord for letting me know tonight that I'm not alone.  Please pray for me, my husband, and twin boys.

[Huldah]

Esperanza, I've read your other posts. I believe that leaving GC was the right thing for you to do. God calls us to a relationship with Himself. He is to be first and foremost in our lives, not the pastors or the elders or the church or evangelism or any of the myriad activities we are asked to do. When pastors insist on placing themselves between us and God, we know that we're being asked to descend into idolatry. You've found the courage to leave that place of bondage and begin your pursuit of God for His own sake. Speaking as one who has been there, I understand how terribly hard this is for you. But I also know that time and the grace of God are great healers.

I broke my collar bone when I was thirteen. It hurt even more in the initial healing period than it did when it happened. You're going through something similar, only in a spiritual sense rather than physical. The sleepless nights and the awkwardness when you run into an elder are all part of the healing process. God has already begun his work of healing grace in you. In time, the fruit of it will be evident. I have prayed for you, that God will send you a night of sound sleep, that your fellowship with Him will grow in depth and knowledge, and that your children will adjust quickly to whatever changes this has caused in their lives.

[esperanza317]

Huldah,  thank you for the encouragement. . . this IS a "healing forum."  I just posted under the ARISE thread too. . .

[Grounded]

This is exactly the way we all should handle GC and the hurts associated with it. Great thoughts everyone!