Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
March 28, 2024, 02:04:13 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I... umm... fell down the stairs...  (Read 6169 times)
tjlyttle
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



WWW
« on: July 27, 2015, 03:16:05 pm »

Some questions for those that have left a GCM church and found a healthy church to plug into:

Have you shared your GCM experiences with your new community?

What questions did you ask the leadership of the new church before committing to the church?

How long did it take before you felt like you could trust the new church/leadership?


I'm just starting the healing process after being at Walnut Creek for 5 years. It sounds crazy and overly dramatic to me, but I really don't know how to adequately explain my experiences without calling it spiritual abuse. As I begin my search to find a healthy church, I'm worried that I'm going to either put up walls that will prevent me from interacting with brothers and sisters the way God wants me to or that I'll end up in a similar situation again. I know for sure that I won't be able to automatically trust the pastor of the church I end up at next, he will have to earn it. How do you explain things so that the new pastor and members of the church will understand that you're not just trying to be negative and bitter? Any advice that you have for navigating this process would be MUCH appreciated.

-TJ



Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2520



« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 05:11:46 pm »

We were at a GC church for 10 years. We have been gone 10 years. I'm not sure we will ever be "over" the experience, but I don't think that is necessarily bad. We are definitely wiser.

Our family was very involved in our church. My husband and two of our children were up front regularly doing music. To be honest, we were clueless about GC and it's past till close to the end of our time there. When odd things would be said, we always gave elders a pass because we knew them and gave them a pass on the grounds that they were young and untrained.

Our eyes were suddenly opened when in early 2005 Mark Darling began giving talks about commitment to your local church FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Said leaving your local church was like divorcing your wife. Even said we were his, "Mark Darling's" bride and we were borrowing the church of "another man's bride" (we had rented Hosanna! church). The straw that broke the camel's back was when our daughter was at a high school HSLT in Colorado and was asked to take the "10 Commitments" One of those commitments was to commit yourself to your local church for the rest of your life unless your elder sent you to another GC church. She did not make that commitment. We were outraged that a pastor would ask minor children to make that commitment. We were out of there in less than a month.

You can listen to that talk here.

http://www.gcxweb.org/Audio/Comm9and10-HSLT-07-24-2005.aspx

In 2012, 7 years after we left GC, we received a letter from Mark Darling and Brent Knox. It seems that John Hopler reads this forum and he asked them to write us. The upshot of it was, Mark sort of downplayed his teaching on commitment for life. Brent addressed the talk on giving the controls of your life to your elders who are fallible. He never really backed down from it. The solution they came up with was to remove the talks from any web pages they were on. They never publicly corrected the teaching. This is what they do. They don't correct bad teaching. They merely remove it. I'm happy that those who started gcx library have these audio files.

As to your questions about sharing our experiences with our new community. Yes, we have. They know all about GC and our involvement in it.

Any time we have an odd feeling about something that was said (which was once and done by a guest preacher) we ask questions immediately.

My theory is that a legitimate, humble leader will not fear questions. I don't think I will ever fully trust the leadership of any church again, and, in fact, I believe that we are not to blindly trust leaders. They are fallible people. Plus, if we believe that the gifts of the Spirit are given for the benefit of the church, the quietest person in the back pew might discern something that needs to be said. No one should blindly trust anyone.

Another thing is that GC teaching is so "off" that they condemn themselves. It is not Protestant theology to give the controls of your life to men, or surrender your will to Jesus and John Hopler (as Mark Darling once stated), or "cross over in your heart" and join GC (as Rick Whitney stated). All you really have to do is show a pastor some of the teaching and they will understand and not view you as bitter or negative.

I'm sorry you find yourself in the position of looking for a new church. I pray God will direct every step of yours from finding a new church to exposing bad teaching.

God bless you.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 09:07:56 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
tjlyttle
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2015, 08:23:30 am »

Linda,

Thanks so much for the response, it's really helpful:

They never publicly corrected the teaching. This is what they do. They don't correct bad teaching. They merely remove it.

Yes, this has been my experience as well. They're sorry to have been caught. They'll do a quick, cold PR campaign and then it's back to business as usual. This behavior really concerns me because I believe that conviction from the Holy Spirit and true repentance is one of the main signs of one's salvation. I'm not God and it's not my place to judge whether others are saved or not, but it makes me greatly concerned when those who claim the name of Christ lack any semblance of real humility.

As to your questions about sharing our experiences with our new community. Yes, we have. They know all about GC and our involvement in it.

Any time we have an odd feeling about something that was said (which was once and done by a guest preacher) we ask questions immediately.

My theory is that a legitimate, humble leader will not fear questions. I don't think I will ever fully trust the leadership of any church again, and, in fact, I believe that we are not to blindly trust leaders. They are fallible people. Plus, if we believe that the gifts of the Spirit are given for the benefit of the church, the quietest person in the back pew might discern something that needs to be said. No one should blindly trust anyone.

This was MASSIVELY encouraging. As I've explained it to some friends, I feel like the blind man that Jesus heals in Mark 8 who has blurry vision before he sees clearly. As I put more and more time and distance between myself and GCM I'm beginning to see things more clearly. I'm sure that 2 years from now some things that I'm just starting to notice now will be crystal clear. For instance, the Bereans were commended because they examined scripture and tested what Paul said. However, when one attempts to do this (as I did), I was labeled as divisive and an enemy of the church. These are the things that I will have to remind myself were aberrations within GCM.

Also, you are correct that we aren't to blindly trust leaders. Unfortunately, that is the practical outworking of GCM's erroneous teaching on loyalty and submission to authority. It forces people to either be more loyal to the local church and its leadership than they are to Jesus, or to challenge the false teaching and be labeled a slanderer/divider/rebel. Once again, while it's always important to be vigilant, this is probably not how most churches operate.

Another thing is that GC teaching is so "off" that they condemn themselves. It is not Protestant theology to give the controls of your life to men, or surrender your will to Jesus and John Hopler (as Mark Darling once stated), or "cross over in your heart" and join GC (as Rick Whitney stated). All you really have to do is show a pastor some of the teaching and they will understand and not view you as bitter or negative.

Once again, SO helpful. I think it's easy to think that the confusion that abounds within a GCM church exists everywhere, but that's not reality. I should be able to find a church where truth and clarity exist, and where leadership has enough humility to be under the authority of Scripture, and not reinterpreting it to fit their own agendas. It's true that no church (this side of eternity) is perfect, but there have to be churches that are healthy and take good care of their congregations. Thanks again for sharing your experiences. This forum has been incredibly encouraging and reassuring as I try and move on with my life.
Logged
margaret
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 193



« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2015, 05:10:23 am »

We were in for 30 years. Been out around 5...the exit was long, and not a clear one day exit.  We attempted to go about it it all the right ways.
Initially, we visited another church, because "that's what you're supposed to do." We kept them at arm's length, although we had some good chats with the pastor. It took me several years before I even realized what I was experiencing was abuse. Once I did, I began participating in this forum, reading books, and joined a fb support group.
I'm needing to talk about it less than about a year ago, but I'm still very much aware of it. I'm totally not ready to trust any church leadership.  I went to my sister's church while visiting her out of town, and it brought up lots of crap...imagining what our old pastor would say if he saw that a woman was leading the worship team (WHAT?Huh Horrors! Is she exercising authority over a man???!!) I also began wondering if the pastor is a jerk at home, or if he's a manipulator in church meetings, if he ever takes advice from anybody, etc. etc.  too many triggers, in other words.
I probably would not tell a pastor or community my past experience if I was ready to start doing church again.  I'd hold my cards close to my chest for quite some time to just observe.  Maybe "secretly interviewing" them with questions that they don't realize my reasons for asking.
No, it does not sound overly dramatic!! I'm FINALLY learning to just let me be me in my healing process.  My spouse did not internalize the experience the same way I did, and has not had a need to read books on spiritual abuse or participate in any forums or groups.  But he knows that I need to do this.  I feel things more deeply than the average Joe, and I'm learning that THAT IS OK. God knows full well how He made me, and by golly, I'm sick of apologizing for it.  Right now I'm just riding this little wave of healing and I trust that God is big enough to direct my wave where he wants it, and when he wants to.
My daughter reminded me that I still need "community" though, and try not to cut myself off from any friends.  All my kids left the church shortly before we did...they saw it and had enough too.  Some have begun finding another church that they can trust, some aren't sure they even believe in God anymore.
I'm just thankful that we still have a very close and mutually respectful relationship with them.

Well didn't mean for this to be a novel...I've been reading the recent posts from here, but haven't had time to respond appropriately...especially to that jtk person.  But I hope this helps.  
I can't tell you how comforting and healing it has been for me to see similar stories...so validating.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 07:48:56 pm by margaret » Logged
Hope
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 18



« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 10:13:07 pm »

Some questions for those that have left a GCM church and found a healthy church to plug into:

Have you shared your GCM experiences with your new community?

What questions did you ask the leadership of the new church before committing to the church?

How long did it take before you felt like you could trust the new church/leadership?


I'm just starting the healing process after being at Walnut Creek for 5 years. It sounds crazy and overly dramatic to me, but I really don't know how to adequately explain my experiences without calling it spiritual abuse. As I begin my search to find a healthy church, I'm worried that I'm going to either put up walls that will prevent me from interacting with brothers and sisters the way God wants me to or that I'll end up in a similar situation again. I know for sure that I won't be able to automatically trust the pastor of the church I end up at next, he will have to earn it. How do you explain things so that the new pastor and members of the church will understand that you're not just trying to be negative and bitter? Any advice that you have for navigating this process would be MUCH appreciated.

-TJ





1. I have briefly shared my experience but not fully. I just started getting comfortable and its been almost 2 years since leaving. On a different note different can be refreshing. I used to be in a lifegroup that was unbalanced and college aged. I changed to a group that is community of those seeking a challenge, mostly couples ranging from young to old of different walks. At first it was awkward, however it was soothing to be challenged, it's a safe area to discuss scripture without judgement. I found mentors and folks who I could look up to openly, where as I had to be guarded. Trusting took time. 

2. I first studied the churches past sermons and made sure they were scripture based with no manipulation. Afterwards I started making connections by meeting/getting to know folks, finding a bible study, and serving. I knew if I had a connection, got to know the pastors, and walls would start going down. The difference in services at churches was obvious, however I was thankful that the new pastor wasn't recycling an old sermon or manipulating it to his viewpoint (there was a nice difference).

3. I had invested several months seeing if I could trust the pastors sermons. I spent time observing the leadership and getting to know the ways of the leadership. When authority and talk of membership arise, I get uneasy but I listen, study, and observe. The difference helps me to trust them. The time to adjust and get comfortable is all up to you. I try to focus growing forward and not letting the past prevent my growth, sometimes I have moments where I cry about the past. I have been able to figure out the postives, identify the negatives and to help me forgive them, and left the confusing moments in God's hands for him to help me identify why I went through them.

I pray you are able to forgive, heal, and move forward. I forgave the leaders but won't forget. If I would have given them a three strike rule before I would leave, I would have left sooner.....there were so many painful memories. 
Logged
NatalieV
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2



« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2015, 08:03:50 pm »

I've never posted here, but I felt compelled to respond to your question regarding how to not make new church leadership think you are negative and bitter.

Those words broke my heart because they show the thinking that has been ingrained that you are the problem - that if you had an abusive experience, you're just being bitter and negative. It's victim blaming that has been ingrained.

I have been out of the group for 11 years now and can say that I have been so pleasantly surprised by churches. When I share my experience, I have received compassion, not blame. It's been such a wonderful experience to attend churches where grace flows, rather than conformity and condemnation.

For me, it's very important to know that leaders are OK with my having a different view point than them, especially on non-central topics. I think you can get a good sense of this fairly quickly. One of my former pastors would often preface something with, "This is how I understand this passage. If you have a different understanding, that's OK. It doesn't make you or I any less of a Christian." That was incredibly freeing to me.

If you do talk to church leaders and their response is to think you are negative or bitter, then that is a very good sign you should not go to that church! But I think (and sincerely hope) you will find that you will be met with compassion not suspicion.
Logged
margaret
Veteran (100-299 Posts)
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 193



« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 04:47:27 am »

Welcome, Natalie. Glad to hear you've moved on!
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1