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Author Topic: Gender ID & Sexuality  (Read 94419 times)
theresearchpersona
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2009, 01:31:19 am »

Thought those who had been reading this thread would like to see the law itself:

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"When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.  It shall be that the firstborn whom she bears shall assume the name of his dead brother, so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel.  

But if the man does not desire to take his brother's wife, then his brother's wife shall go up to the gate to the elders and say, 'My husband's brother refuses to establish a name for his brother in Israel; he is not willing to perform the duty of a husband's brother to me.'  Then the elders of his city shall summon him and speak to him. And if he persists and says, 'I do not desire to take her,' then his brother's wife shall come to him in the sight of the elders, and pull his sandal off his foot and spit in his face; and she shall declare, 'Thus it is done to the man who does not build up his brother's house.'

In Israel his name shall be called, 'The house of him whose sandal is removed.' (Deuteronomy 25:5-10)

God was angry with the brother who said he would do this, but lied, and backed out of his obligations.  There is nothing in this law upholding superstition, extolling semen as sacred, or commending homosexuality.  


I was going to post the same statement regarding this a few days back, but I was also responding to other statements, and having the propensity to blather too much, shut-down and waited for another time I could be more concise. : ) Just affirming your assertion here (i.e. standing with you on this).
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Captain Bible
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 09:19:01 am »


I was a member of a GC in Des Moines, IA and at first everything seemed like a dream so many people wanting to be your friend and state that they would be there for you no matter what felt good at first. Once you got to the point of membership class it was a whole book like of rules and big section on disciplinary action. I felt like a child seeing that. One day I was asked to leave the church because I was not living a godly life. I fully came out as a Gay man and they stated to me that I can overcome it and it is an addiction and I am a horrible person. I was involved with everything before very honest and trustworthy but once that happened the pastors told my friends that they couldn't talk to me because I was living a life of Satan and just a whirlwind life. I was told I couldn't go back to church there again. Then came a time I returned back all went well for several months and then I just got to the point I was like I am sick of always having to do this or that or I will be turned away from the church. My partner and I live very good lives and are very much believers in Christ Jesus. We know some might not agree with our lifestyle but if it is a sin it is no different than any other one that a person commits. I had points where I felt like committing suicide over the loss of friends because pastors and elders in the church telling people not to talk to me because I was GAY. I don't understand the fact of a church that would advise parents to disown their own son part of their flesh and blood and never have nothing to do with him again. I was allowed to go on one mission trip to Germany and then wasn't allowed to go on anymore because I was considered not trustworthy and unstable.




There was real prevalent homophobia in my collage group. Once I got into trouble for watching a “chick flick” with the girls. I always thought that I got in trouble because in their view the girls in the room would stumble by my mere presence in the room. Maybe they where afraid that all those girls would jump me and there would be a wild orgy while watching Sense and Sensibility.  Roll Eyes

But as my inquisition progressed, someone said, “so you say you have the gift of being single yet you like romantic movies?”  in other words, “Are you GAY?”  Shocked

I now equate the gift of being single with Homosexuality. Come to think of it there where a lot of older effeminate men who had the gift of being single in my church. Singles ministry: the place for all the misfits and out casts. ya, that's where a homosexual would land....

 If you struggle with homosexuality you will be subservient to a mentor or a group of mentors who will grill you on all your lust full thoughts to hold you accountable. These relationships become very twisted with the one man enslaving  the other. The goal is to get the homosexual person married than the leadership can declare victory, but the battle never ends and the slave is never released.  Cry

In GC Practicing homosexuals out side the church are sex monsters who will rape you any chance they get. They also might rape your children and your wife and your parents. Shocked If you are a homosexual you are a tool of the devil. Living in sin, full of evil.....

They have this twisted theology that is so abhorrent to me: they say that God gives man over to greater forms of evil as he rebels.
So you start by telling a little white lie than God presents you the opportunity to steal something....  
than, before you know it, “Holy s***, I'm attracted to dudes!”    Kiss Kiss
This without a doubt is the stupidest line of thinking!

Homosexuality is not a Choice! You can choose to come out of the closet or stay in, that's a choice. But once you say it is a choice to be gay than you can become gay. And that is why men in GC are so afraid of sense and sensibility, because if you watch it you might just become gay.  Wink

Mapleleafsfan84 I am so happy you made it past this dark time in your life. I am also happy you are living the life that you want to live. I hope someday in the future Americans will move past homophobia and adopt a more Canadian way of thinking: Equal rights for all regardless of sexual orientation.  God bless.  
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 08:39:15 pm by Captain Bible » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 09:33:16 am »

Did any one hear about two gay woman in Tom Shorts church, who where reformed? Something along the lines of being moved into tom's house and living with his family for six months or something like that. I think I remember someone saying they were: "Successfully rehabilitated." Scary. 
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"When you divide the land by lot as an inheritance, you must set aside a donation to the Lord, a holy portion of the land, eight and one-third miles long and six and two-thirds miles wide. This entire tract of land will be holy." Ezekiel 45: 1
Innerlight
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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2011, 04:11:20 pm »

Mapleleafsfan84:

"if it is a sin it is no different than any other one that a person commits".

Help me to understand that comment.   
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ender
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 10:06:49 am »

Mapleleafsfan84:

"if it is a sin it is no different than any other one that a person commits".

Help me to understand that comment.   

My guess is something along the lines of "sin is sin in the eyes of God, homosexuality is not worse than lying or pride or other sins"

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Innerlight
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2011, 05:11:03 pm »

So two wrongs make a right?
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 09:12:24 am »

"Which sin is "greater" between lying and homosexuality?" is not the correct question.  Not at all.  The correct eternal question is:  Has the sinner sorrowed over and repented from his sin? 

Each time we repent, Jesus forgives us all our unrighteousness.  Liars who repent, are forgiven, even Christian liars.  Homosexuals who declare their sinful lifestyle to be godly and therefore do not consider it sinful, do not repent and are therefore not forgiven.

Has the sinner sorrowed over and repented from his sin?
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G_Prince
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2011, 03:58:13 pm »

"Which sin is "greater" between lying and homosexuality?" is not the correct question.  Not at all.  The correct eternal question is:  Has the sinner sorrowed over and repented from his sin? 

Each time we repent, Jesus forgives us all our unrighteousness.  Liars who repent, are forgiven, even Christian liars.  Homosexuals who declare their sinful lifestyle to be godly and therefore do not consider it sinful, do not repent and are therefore not forgiven.

Has the sinner sorrowed over and repented from his sin?

EAS,

I'm limited in my theology, by I don't think God's forgivness is contigent on our repentance. I believe the standard interpretaion is that forgivness and salvation are freely given and have nothing to do with human attitudes. Otherwise salvation would depend on OUR actions and not Christ. As far as I know our role in the economy of salvation is important but unknowable. I don't think it is as simple as I repent and God forgives. Just saying... Wink Let me know if I'm off base.
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2011, 04:51:28 pm »

I used to think that it was okay to be repulsed by gay and lesbian people, and I am sorry for that. A few years ago, I took some time to educate myself. I found out that homosexuality is not a choice. It is not a behavior. It is not a lifestyle. It is not a rejection of Christianity. It is simply a sexual orientation. Gay people can be  out and proud, or they can be private. They can be promiscuous, in a committed relationship, or celibate.
 
Jesus taught us to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. He also taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. His words are plain. I am an ally for GLBT people because the love of Jesus Christ fills my heart and compels me.
 
I am deeply sorry that the church has not welcomed GLBT people. When a young person is struggling with identity, questioning faith, confused about sexual orientation, insecure about relationships, and rejected by peers, the church should be a refuge.
 
The message of the church is the same for GLBT young people as it is for anyone else. God loves you. He forgives you. He calls you. He designed you to be his friend so that you could spread his awesome love to your world. You are the apple of God’s eye. His love for you is as sure as the dawn. And another thing---if anyone ever tells you that these are the best years of your life, don’t believe it. Things will get a lot better.

http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/faith.htm

http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/09/the-crisis-with-glbt-youth/
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2011, 07:23:03 pm »

I agree, that love is paramount.  God loved us, and Christ died for us while we were yet sinners.  We should not judge, as only God see's the view from above, and we need to leave room for his perfect righteousness.  Great damage has been done to Christ's Church, by the "Fire and Brimstone" crowd, which is just too bad, tragic really. 

It's unfortunate that Paul's compelling argument about sin's affect on humanity (so elequently spelled out in Roman's 1:18-32) has been twisted, (see the post's above this one).  I agree with the writer, a white lie doesn't lead to greater and greater sin, that is twisting what Paul is saying.  I believe what he is saying in his diatribe, is detailing the degradation of humanity, due to sin's effect.  He, along with other philosophers and teachers (not neccesarily Christian) of the same period also wrote and said similar things.  Perhaps in part in reaction to the excesses of the Roman Empire, and it's over sexualized elite. 

However,  if you are intellectually honest with yourself, you cannot deny what the Bible says.  Don't forget, Paul also says: Love your neighbor as yourself, Love cannot wrong a neighbor (that's everyone), therefore Love is the fulfillment of the law. 
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EverAStudent
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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2011, 07:43:07 pm »

Quote from: G_Prince
I'm limited in my theology, by I don't think God's forgivness is contigent on our repentance. I believe the standard interpretaion is that forgivness and salvation are freely given and have nothing to do with human attitudes. Otherwise salvation would depend on OUR actions and not Christ. As far as I know our role in the economy of salvation is important but unknowable. I don't think it is as simple as I repent and God forgives. Just saying...  Let me know if I'm off base.

Hi Prince.  Salvation is entirely contingent on our repentance.  No, to suggest such a thing is not an endorsement of works-religion, because repentance is not a work.  Repentance is our response to God's saving call.  If we have no response of repentance, we have not yet been effectually called by the Holy Spirit to repentance.  God did all the work: He elected, He died, He rose again, He calls, He convicts the conscience of the sinner, He regenerates, He forgives, He seals the saved repentant sinner for eternity.  But if we never respond with repentance, it is a sure thing that we have never been regenerated.

"Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out" (Acts 3:19).  Forgiveness is conditional on repentance.

Virtually every reformed theologian rejects the notion that God forgives everyone, pardons everyone, and brings everyone to heaven, regardless of whether they have repented.  The idea that God brings all to heaven no matter whether they have ever sorrowed over their sin or not, is called *universalism*.  Universalism is the heretical theology that God will never commit anyone to Hell due to His nature of love.  Universalism ignores other aspects of God's nature, such as justice, vengeance, jealousy, and wrath.  On pages 694-695 Wayne Grudem in Systematic Theology states this explictly.  Consider the following quote below from another website:

Such is the nature and typical formula of biblical forgiveness. A man admits his guilt (or stated another way, he confesses his sin), requests release from punishment, and is granted forgiveness from the one he offended (forgiveness being the very act of releasing a man from his deserved punishment).

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)

Personally, I have always hated thinking of spirituality in terms of "formulas." Yet, forgiveness is usually patterned this way in the Scriptures. Someone sins against another man or against God, he confesses his guilt, asks for forgiveness (i.e. release from further punishment), and is granted the same. One exception, to be discussed later, is the option of the offended to forgive minor insults or small personal sins without being asked. Release from punishment without confessing one’s guilt, and without asking for forgiveness, is not the typical description of forgiveness in the Bible.

See also this article: http://www.thefaithfulword.org/2008januaryblogarchives.html#9
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 07:56:10 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2011, 12:38:33 pm »

I would like to hear a strong biblical case made that homosexuality is a sin. Because I don't think the bible has a unified voice on the matter. I have read the bible many times, and frankly sexuality in the bible is a very mixed bag. Polygamy is the norm for much of the Bible, than in the new testament celibacy is the goal of the Christian church, What a switch! (1 Cor 7:32, Mt 19:11).
The present christian I think has a very poor understanding of the biblical views of sexuality. Mostly I feel that christians today ignore the parts of the bible that are hard for them. Especially the Christians who claim to obey everything in the bible. So they pull out the verse in 1 cor 6:9-11 and say look homosexuality is a sin. Just because it is in a list of "vices." Yet the relationship between David and Jonathan is celebrated.

Homosexuality is spoken against in the bible, true. Is it strongly spoken against? I don't think so, especially poled against a sin like adultery or idolatry which are the bibles most spoken against sins. I am not saying Christians should accept Homosexuals into their churches. I think they can do whatever they want about it within their religion, but lets separate church and state for pete's sake! Lets support equal rights for all people no matter what their sexual preferences.    
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:46:19 pm by Captain Bible » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2011, 03:06:08 pm »

Hi Captain.

You wrote, "Homosexuality is spoken against in the Bible, true."  We agree, and need not rehash the plethora of texts that equate homosexuality with sin in general. 

Your bigger issue is why is homosexuality not given the same *wink-wink* that some of the patriarchs in ancient Israel seem to have gotten for playing fast and loose with sexual sins (i.e. adultery, plural marriages, sexual slavery/concubines)?

Adultery was always supposed to be punished with stoning (in the Old Covenant).  How did David get away with it?  He was the king, the monarch, the head judge, and no one was going to stone him.  How did David get away with having sex slaves/concubines, a clear violation of the "no adultery commandment?  He was the king!  He was a sinner and paid dear prices for all these sins (one child died, other children staged rebellions that cost the lives of thousands, he became estranged from his own step children, etc.).  Sadly, Solomon followed his father's example with similar consequences (his pluaral wives led him into idolatry which was imitated by his own children leading to the division of the entire nation!).

Jesus said that from the beginning of humanity God had decreed that only one man and one woman would get married.  Everything else is a sin.  The entire OT is the story of man acting sinfully but God being gracious anyway.  No *wink wink* -- just sin that is forgiven upon repentance.  Lack of repentance by leadership, as with David and Solomon, can result in the loss of a nation.
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« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2011, 03:21:38 pm »

A few additional thoughts, Captain.

You seemed to indicate that you believed that Jonathan and David were gay lovers...yet the biblical text offers no such intimation.  David was in fact married to women, too many women, but there is no indication he was anything but straight.  Two guys being strong friends is hardly "gay."

Also, you said maybe churches should exclude gays.  Touchy subject.  Churches should be open to minister to anyone, gays included, though the privileges of membership must be constrained only to those who are saved and who are not in openly rebellious (sinful) lifestyles.  

Were you aware that in the UK pastors are being charged with anti-defamation lawsuits because they include homosexuality as a sin in their homilies?

Lastly, since homosexuality is being given legal protection, is it possible that the gay lobby will expand the definition of gay to include pedophilia?:  http://mc-shann.xanga.com/742965033/pedophile-i-was-born-this-way/   Some years ago when I worked for a Fortune 100, my personal assistant was openly gay and an active member of both NAMBLA and PFLAG.  In between assignments he worked hard at trying to get the age of consentual sex moved back from 18 to 14.  Coincidence?  
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:43:41 pm by EverAStudent » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2011, 05:04:08 am »

Lastly, since homosexuality is being given legal protection, is it possible that the gay lobby will expand the definition of gay to include pedophilia?:  http://mc-shann.xanga.com/742965033/pedophile-i-was-born-this-way/   Some years ago when I worked for a Fortune 100, my personal assistant was openly gay and an active member of both NAMBLA and PFLAG.  In between assignments he worked hard at trying to get the age of consentual sex moved back from 18 to 14.  Coincidence?  

As a gay person, I would just like to say that I find this a hateful and disgusting insinuation.  How is saying such a thing loving?  How is it kind?  Do you have any idea how it sounds to a gay person when you say the things you say?  Gay people are not a "lobby."  We're not a homogeneous group of drones who have identical political or religious beliefs.  We're actual people.  Many of us are Christians.  I'm not going to argue with you, because I recognize that your heart is not open to being changed.  But I would ask you to consider carefully the things you say, especially things like this that are so abhorrent.
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« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2011, 08:12:44 am »

Quote from: Cossette729
As a gay person, I would just like to say that I find this a hateful and disgusting insinuation.  How is saying such a thing loving?  How is it kind?  Do you have any idea how it sounds to a gay person when you say the things you say?  Gay people are not a "lobby."  We're not a homogeneous group of drones who have identical political or religious beliefs.  We're actual people.  Many of us are Christians.  I'm not going to argue with you, because I recognize that your heart is not open to being changed.  But I would ask you to consider carefully the things you say, especially things like this that are so abhorrent.

Dear Cossette729, name calling at someone merely because you do not like the post does not advance the discussion.  What you refer to as a hateful, disgusting, unloving, and unkind insinuation is actually a news article about a court proceeding; it happened.  Talking about a current event does not automatically make someone hateful, disgusting, unloving, and unkind.

Did you read the article?  Did you read about the pyschotherapist who provided the expert testimony that pedophilia is comparable to homosexuality in certain respects? 

You also seem to imply that gays do not have political lobbies.  Perhaps not all gays participate, but the lobbies do exist.  And yes, my personal assistant was organizing lobbyists for reducing the age of consentual sex (he did not find sex with young boys to be "wrong"); I found on the department's printer and on his desk numerous documents he had designed for PFLAG and NAMBLA encouraing gays to pressure their congresspeople to lower the age of consent in their state.  Is that information offensive?  I agree at some level.  Yet it is also factual.

I am curious, are you a born again Christian?  If so, what Scripture would you cite to demonstrate Jesus approves of homosexuality?
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« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2011, 08:45:13 am »

I also work for a large well-known company, and was required to go through diversity training, run by a Baptist minister of all people.

Where was the tolerance when I had to watch/view pictures of men in leather masks in provactative and shocking poses all the while being told they are your friends, neighbor's and are just like you...everyday people.  To me, the whole thing was propaganda, and a counter-culture, begging for acceptance, and seeking justification for their behavior. 

I would encourage you to read the first chapter of Romans, and the chapter on depravity, and see if it squares up with your view of Christianity.  I know the response will be, "well that was Paul", but to me that's like saying...well that's Isaiah, or Hosea, or Elijah...  But they are all prophets, Men of God with equal validity. 





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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2011, 09:38:48 am »

Hi Captain.

You wrote, "Homosexuality is spoken against in the Bible, true."  We agree, and need not rehash the plethora of texts that equate homosexuality with sin in general.  

Your bigger issue is why is homosexuality not given the same *wink-wink* that some of the patriarchs in ancient Israel seem to have gotten for playing fast and loose with sexual sins (i.e. adultery, plural marriages, sexual slavery/concubines)?

Adultery was always supposed to be punished with stoning (in the Old Covenant).  How did David get away with it?  He was the king, the monarch, the head judge, and no one was going to stone him.  How did David get away with having sex slaves/concubines, a clear violation of the "no adultery commandment?  He was the king!  He was a sinner and paid dear prices for all these sins (one child died, other children staged rebellions that cost the lives of thousands, he became estranged from his own step children, etc.).  Sadly, Solomon followed his father's example with similar consequences (his pluaral wives led him into idolatry which was imitated by his own children leading to the division of the entire nation!).

Jesus said that from the beginning of humanity God had decreed that only one man and one woman would get married.  Everything else is a sin.  The entire OT is the story of man acting sinfully but God being gracious anyway.  No *wink wink* -- just sin that is forgiven upon repentance.  Lack of repentance by leadership, as with David and Solomon, can result in the loss of a nation.

" How did David get away with having sex slaves/concubines, a clear violation of the "no adultery commandment? "

He got away with it because the law had not been written yet, in Davids time. Leviticus was written latter during the exile to Babylon. At least as I have understood things most of the Torah came latter on.


A few additional thoughts, Captain.

You seemed to indicate that you believed that Jonathan and David were gay lovers...yet the biblical text offers no such intimation.  David was in fact married to women, too many women, but there is no indication he was anything but straight.  Two guys being strong friends is hardly "gay."

Also, you said maybe churches should exclude gays.  Touchy subject.  Churches should be open to minister to anyone, gays included, though the privileges of membership must be constrained only to those who are saved and who are not in openly rebellious (sinful) lifestyles.  

Were you aware that in the UK pastors are being charged with anti-defamation lawsuits because they include homosexuality as a sin in their homilies?

Lastly, since homosexuality is being given legal protection, is it possible that the gay lobby will expand the definition of gay to include pedophilia?:  http://mc-shann.xanga.com/742965033/pedophile-i-was-born-this-way/   Some years ago when I worked for a Fortune 100, my personal assistant was openly gay and an active member of both NAMBLA and PFLAG.  In between assignments he worked hard at trying to get the age of consentual sex moved back from 18 to 14.  Coincidence?  

When I think of pedophilia Homosexuals are the last people who come to mind frankly.

Cossette729 is right: "we're not a homogeneous group of drones." so true!

I am not saying Christians should accept Homosexuals into their churches. I think they can do whatever they want about it within their religion, but lets separate church and state for pete's sake! Lets support equal rights for all people no matter what their sexual preferences.    

To expand this thought... I think churches are struggling with this issue, I think they will come to their own conclusions. We don't live in England. This country is a Christian country and homosexuals are just trying to win rights to equality. You do raise a good point, once conservative Christians agree to stop discrimination against homosexuals, will they have to let them come to church?  Probably, I don't know I just want to build understanding between sides. In my humble opinion Jesus would be found at gay pride celebration “dining with the sinners”  and upon visiting a conservative church Fred Phelps and gang would plot to kill him, just my two cents.  


You also seem to imply that gays do not have political lobbies.  Perhaps not all gays participate, but the lobbies do exist.  And yes, my personal assistant was organizing lobbyists for reducing the age of consentual sex (he did not find sex with young boys to be "wrong"); I found on the department's printer and on his desk numerous documents he had designed for PFLAG and NAMBLA encouraing gays to pressure their congresspeople to lower the age of consent in their state.  Is that information offensive?  I agree at some level.  Yet it is also factual.

Gay action groups came about in the wake of the riots in New York back in the 60's because of all the homophobes in the government abusing gays and thanks to those groups we have come a long way in curbing discrimination. We still have a long way to go.  

On age of consensual sex I think we have some big problems in this country. There are plenty of cases where a person gets labeled a child molester because they had sex with a sixteen year old girl who lied about her age to an eighteen year old boy, Both of them at a bar.

I think in many ways this culture is sex crazy and I don't want to say we don't have problems in that department, but don't hide behind this and demonize mature homosexual couples.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 10:19:50 am by Captain Bible » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2011, 10:09:27 am »

I also work for a large well-known company, and was required to go through diversity training, run by a Baptist minister of all people.

Where was the tolerance when I had to watch/view pictures of men in leather masks in provactative and shocking poses all the while being told they are your friends, neighbor's and are just like you...everyday people.  To me, the whole thing was propaganda, and a counter-culture, begging for acceptance, and seeking justification for their behavior.  

I would encourage you to read the first chapter of Romans, and the chapter on depravity, and see if it squares up with your view of Christianity.  I know the response will be, "well that was Paul", but to me that's like saying...well that's Isaiah, or Hosea, or Elijah...  But they are all prophets, Men of God with equal validity.  


Maybe that Baptist minister wanted you to see those shocking poses just to make you afraid of gay people, ever think of that?
Have you ever seen pornography? It is pretty shocking and disgusting and most of your neighbors are looking at that right now. And I got some bad news for you, lots of hedrosexuals dress up in leather masks!

You should be ranting about Hugh Hefner and objectifying of the American women,(I am a feminist too by the way) and not painting gays as sex monsters. Don't trust a baptist to inform you on what gays are doing in their bedrooms. Wink
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 10:11:36 am by Captain Bible » Logged

"When you divide the land by lot as an inheritance, you must set aside a donation to the Lord, a holy portion of the land, eight and one-third miles long and six and two-thirds miles wide. This entire tract of land will be holy." Ezekiel 45: 1
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2011, 10:24:58 am »

hey there Innerlight.  in my company we were forced to attend 'diversity training'.  it was about four hours of christian bashing and ended by the facilitator comparing christians, yes he said 'christians' by name, to 'goose stepping nazis of hilter's germany.'  who needs diversity training more, the christians or the intolerant christo-phobes?
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