Gender ID & Sexuality

EverAStudent

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2011, 06:39:07 am »

Hi Linda. Good post.

It is unfortunate that many churches, even GC, do not teach through all the attributes of God from both the OT and the NT. They would soon discover that in addition to having a nature of love and mercy (which is why He gives us salvation at His expense) God also has a nature of jealousy and justice. God hates sin and will invoke wrath, anger, vengeance, and revenge against wickedness. When we read about what Jesus will do and say in the book of Revelation we realize there is no difference in God's nature from the OT to the NT.

G-Prince is unhappy that God would cause the death of entire cities of people involved in infant sacrifice as part of idol worship (2 Kings 16:3), or entire cities of people given over to rape and murder (Genesis 19:5). But this begs several questions: 1) where did G-Prince get the moral notion that death of humans is wicked (except that God values human life and told us to value it also), 2) did God not curse the world and give every human a corporeal death sentence anyway, and 3) is not human corporeal death less to be feared than eternal death?

We just tend to ignore how impossible it is for God to casually laugh at sin as if it were a funny sitcom. It is against His very nature to enjoy sin or to permit sin to go unpunished. Men think God should just giggle and say, "Oh those silly hopeless humans, they just can't help themselves getting stuck in sin...giggle...so I'll just forgive them...giggle." God's hatred of sin (rape, child sacrifice, and murder), and His jealousy for his name, and His nature of justice require Him to take action against unrepented sin. Humans just do not understand God, nor do they want to much of the time.


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Linda

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2011, 07:03:59 am »

Two attributes that helps me make sense of all of the things I don't understand are God's perfect holiness mixed with God's perfect justice.

I thought GP brought up some valid questions. It is a little hard to think of some of the Old Testament events that involve judgment. Genocide, a Flood, a baby who died because his parents sinned, etc. When I have trouble with it, I believe it is because I do not have the mind of God (no brainer there). No one, but God has the right to take or give life. I don't know exactly what it meant for "the sins of the Amorites to be complete", but I assume the Amorites must have been doing something really bad and God was patient in his judgment and waited till they were thoroughly corrupt.

Here is a link that I found Googling because GP has me thinking and wanting have a better understanding of why I believe what I believe.

https://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/taste-see-articles/what-does-the-slaughter-of-the-amorites-mean

On a bigger level, and one that I think GC is totally messed up on, God did speak directly to specific leaders in the Old Testament. They, in turn, spoke for God. Disobeying Moses, was disobeying God. I have actually heard GC leaders use the example of Moses to get people to follow them. If they spent less time telling us about Korah's rebellion and more time helping us understand God, the kingdom might move forward in a big way!

I'm enjoying this discussion, but feel bad about hijacking this thread. Do you think we should start a new thread?


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dwalin2

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2011, 07:04:58 am »

Does GC have the ability to help people with homosexuality? Not really, because their theology is bad. I think that is the main point of this entire thread.

Does the Bible mean what it says in Romans 1? I believe it does. You can disagree with it, but please don't go the route of saying it doesn't say what it clearly says. Can it be understood "literally"? The author wrote with the intent of being understood by the reader.

Maybe you are beating a dead horse now with this thread. I don't think this thread is helpful because it is delving into the realms of becoming political and is bringing up theological issues that really don't have anything to do with GC. In fact, a person in GC may be reading this and concluding that people who leave GC are leaving because of liberal theology rather than the dysfunctional system of GC.

For instance, does it really matter if we evolved or if we were created in 6 days? Did death come from one man or has it always been present? I hope nobody burns anyone at the stake for disagreement. I guess Christianity has some bleak moments like that. I also hope they don't shove them into ovens in concentration camps either....but who am I to judge.

One other point of consideration is that this thread was started with a very one sided slant on events that happened within a church. There is another side to the coin. I don't mean this as an attack on Mr. Mapleleaf (sorry, but you weren't that anonymous), but you came into the fellowship asking for help in your struggle with homosexuality. The church was very up front as to its stance of it as a sin. Over an extended period of time, you made it very clear that you had no desire to repent of your behavior and so the church closed its doors to you when you got married.

It saddens me that you were brought into a place where help was unavailable. The other side of the coin is that you didn't come seeking change, but fellowship. Anyhow, I've been politically incorrect and "homophobic", so I'm going to stop writing. I'm sure 20 more will respond if I post this and this thread will go on and on and on, but I'm going to post it anyways.

In closing, get out of GC.


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EverAStudent

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2011, 08:26:21 am »

Dear dwalin2,

I guess I will ask what I suspect others are wondering: Can you clarify your statements and your stance? The opening is ambiguous as it is hard to discern if it is meant to be sarcastic or something else. Do you "actually" think GC has bad theology and therefore cannot help gays, or was this all tongue-in-cheek?

At the end you say, "get out of GC," but it is unclear as to whether you say this because you are disgusted by mapleleaf or because you sincerely want him to get help at a better church.

I will refrain from any other comments until there is some clarification.


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Captain Bible

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2011, 02:52:53 pm »

To posters on this thread:

Thank you all for your views and explanations, I feel whenever the subject of homosexuality comes up things can get emotional fast. Thanks for your civility and clarity. This is a very important conversation to have, because it is political and it is religious. As a long time attender of a GC church I honestly did not hear a clear argument as to why they thought homosexuality was a sin. It just was one, not only that, it was the worst sin. To be a homosexual was the worst crime a person could commit. Please understand, no one openly said this, almost never did it come up. It was just something I picked up from people. When In GC I believed all our sins would be exposed at judgment when God pulled out the tape to show the replay to the gathered throng at the judgment seat. Now I just laugh at my old faith, because life has become such a joy... yet, I also feel sorrow for those who are cheating themselves as I did with false teachers. For I do not have answers anymore, just more questions.

Your Friend, Captain Bible

PS.(For all you GC lurkers): I am a liberal. I have been brain washed by satin. I have fallen from the path of righteousness and am going to hell to burn forever and ever.... and I'm just fine with it. Wink


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truth_and_consequences

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2012, 08:50:12 pm »

The context of any discussion of homosexuality must acknowledge the following:

1) By and large, it has become an accepted practice in the United States and in the 'civilized' world.
2) The mass media (and I include motion pictures and television programming) favors homosexuality.
3) Most 'Christian' denominations tolerate homosexuality at the very least, while more and more are accepting it in their congregations.
4) Homosexuals make the constant point of differentiating what Jesus said (failed to say) and what other writers of the Bible wrote about homosexuality.
5) Homosexuals seek to influence Christian beliefs, in part, by becoming part of the infrastructure of local churches and working from within to effect change.

To say homosexuality is a sin is an understatement. It is an abomination. And regarding this and other sexual unrighteousness, we are commanded to flee - not watch, not accept, not listen, not tolerate, and not even walk. The idea is to run at top speed and there are many reasons for this. Anyone who has given in to temptation (anyone here not given in?) knows at least a few of the reasons.

I am surpised and saddened that so many well-meaning Christians tolerate homosexuality while it is destroying (though perhaps 'revealing' is a better word) so many people, churches, and denominations. Murder, rape, child molestation, stealing, and lying cannot compare to the damage homosexuality has done because, in large part, those sins are not tolerated and are not allowed to infect Christianity.

What if someone posted here, stating that he had murdered and was continuing to murder and yet expected to be accepted for it? Would such a person be accepted?

The penalty for any sin is the same but God's perspective on sin is not the same for each sin. Clearly, some are worse than others and God makes that clear in the Bible.

Why is it that homosexuality is tolerated and discoursed ad infinitum? Is it not enough to say that God says over and over that it is wrong, that it is a sin, and that it is an abomination? Isn't that enough?

It's enough for me and I have long since grown weary of coddling those who make no bones about refusing to repent of this sin.


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Neverbeengcm

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Re: Gender ID & Sexuality

« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2012, 07:05:52 am »

Truth_and_consequences,

Wow! I suppose we should expect anyone who is a homosexual to just kill themselves because you are offended. Calling them sinners and shunning them is apparently what may be what you want us to do. Who are we to judge another human being for anything they feel. Maybe there is a reason God made some people attracted to memebers of the same sex. You make some HUGE judgements here. There is no study that has ever been done that proves homosexuals are any more likely to commit any kind of crime than anyone else.

To those of you who are so self-righteous that you believe it is a sin to be who you are...I am so sorry for you. You say that being gay is a sin. There is nothing in the 10 commandments about being attracted to the same sex. God created all of us and made us who we are for a reason. We are all born with a God given natural attraction to one gender or another. Some people are naturally physically attracted to both genders. We are who we are. Why should we feel any obligation to try to change these folks who are attracted to members of the same sex to think the way we do.

The Great Commission has this same kind of elitist attitude. They believe they have it right and the rest of us are going to hell. There are things that we, as human beings, just don't have the ability to comprehend or understand and we are not supposed to fully understand them. Maybe homsexuality is God's way of controling the population.