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Author Topic: The Marriage Lottery  (Read 33816 times)
G_Prince
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« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2007, 08:09:19 pm »

It makes me wonder how successful the GCx matchmaker marriages are. Are these unions really happy? Are people glad they followed GCx advice?

As for me, spurning leader's warnings was one of the best decisions I ever made. Gen is awesome!
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
randomous
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« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2007, 09:42:43 pm »

Totally random jump-in (in keeping with my name; btw I haven't been absent for any reason other than that I've been vacationing and working, that ugly cycle, and then the whole Christmas thing.)

Anyway, on the random comment- how many people do you know married by GC pastors who are now divorced?  Last I heard it was somewhere around 2-3% - a lot better than the over 50% for the general evangelical population in our country.  Just something to think about, please don't take it out of context.
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randomous
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« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2007, 09:45:19 pm »

Oh yeah, and the other big reason I've been absent is that I won a Nintendo Wii and 3 games in a Pringles sweepstakes, and it has subsequently taken over my life.  Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, a strategy RPG, is by far the best game of any type I've ever played, and also the most challenging and the longest as well (and I've played a lot of Final Fantasy style RPG's).  So, um, yeah..
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namaste
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« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2007, 05:54:50 am »

Quote from: "randomous"
How many people do you know married by GC pastors who are now divorced?  Last I heard it was somewhere around 2-3% - a lot better than the over 50% for the general evangelical population in our country.


Randomous-
I'll give that all the consideration it deserves.

Don't you know what today is?  Shouldn't you be out proselytizing to witches or something?  :wink:
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Om, shanti.
Linda
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« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2007, 08:00:38 am »

Quote
I won a Nintendo Wii and 3 games in a Pringles sweepstakes

Congratulations, it's always fun to win something.

Quote
Don't you know what today is?

So, what day is it?

Don't forget tomorrow is Festivus, for the rest of us, a time for the airing of grievances.

And, randomous, to answer your first post. We've been going to evangelical churches since we were married. I can' only think of two couples who have gotten divorced in those churches (in one case the wife was mentally ill, and in the other, the church was part of an authoritarian sect and the wife felt like she had two husbands, the church AND her husband). In addition, I can think of one GCM couple who have been married 2 years that are separated. Very sad and am praying that doesn't end in divorce.

I heard that line about the low divorce rate at GCM churches, as well, but all the other churches we attended had low divorce rates, so I don't think that is a GCM exclusive trait.
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Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
nateswinton
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« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2007, 10:37:38 am »

People leave GC due to shunning if a divorce is emminent.  Those stats are skewed.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2007, 11:00:49 am »

I guess I wasn't really wondering about stats. I was wondering about how well these marriages work. Are people truly happy, content and loved in these unions? I don't think statistics can properly tell the story of a marriage.

Lots of people stay together because of various social pressure. And I wonder if in less controlling environments unhappy couples are more likely to split. I really hope people in GCx aren't putting on a happy face and gutting it out due to pressure. That would be really heartbreaking, but I can't help thinking about it.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Valley Noir
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« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2007, 03:33:56 pm »

Quote from: "nateswinton"
People leave GC due to shunning if a divorce is emminent.  Those stats are skewed.


I'd have to agree with Nate.  I've known personally of several couples who left the church/divorced simultaneously.  Why that happens is up for conjecture:  a.  after investing a good portion of life in GC* and a GC* marriage, a person just decides to toss it all out the window; b.  the marriage was a product/function of the GC* ministry, and once the person decides that GC* is in serious error, that person no longer has enough in common with a spouse;  c.  the GC* pressure towards conformity encourages people to ignore personal or relational deficits, and the dysfunction in the marital relationship builds past the crisis point, until one or both of the partners leave the marriage and the church; d.  GC* shuns troubled spouses because it wants to avoid the appearance of failure.

I don't think a. or d. are likely.  I know of one person who attributed his post-GC* marital problems to b.

I think more telling would be the divorce rate of couples who had been part of the GC* ministry during any substantial part of their relationships.  If GC* is good for marriages, that should continue past any involvement in GC*.
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Valley Noir
namaste
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« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2007, 08:12:28 pm »

Quote
So, what day is it?


Winter solstice (or Yule).  Yule is traditionally the first day AFTER the shortest day of the year.  Yule marks the re-entry of light into the world (ie, when the days begin growing instead of getting shorter).  We think it's a lovely correspondence for the birth of Christ, and much prefer to remember Christ on this day, as opposed to the 25th (which was hijacked for celebrating Christmas in order to appease the worshipers of some not-so-nice deities).  

Well, that, and to be honest, it's awfully hard to honor Christ when you're busy running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to appease all of the relatives. Smiley
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randomous
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« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2007, 06:25:27 pm »

Again, the question wasn't one of people who are members of GC churches, the question was people married by GC pastors.  Which includes people who leave.  I think it's a much more relevant stat when it comes to the pastors' credibility in marriage counseling.  
And nationally, the stat with evangelical churches is around 50%.  
The reason people stay together is important, but I think more important is that they're committed to each other before God to stick it out regardless.  If people left marriages because they weren't "happy" all the time, we'd have... oh, wait, we'd have exactly what we have going on in our country right now.  Not to mention that it's pretty hard to be happy if the person you love isn't committed to you.
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searching
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« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2007, 06:38:08 pm »

From my stats...there were many people who got married in the GC church and then got a divorce.  

I just think the people really did not know one another very well.  Since dating was out of the question, marriage was the next best thing.  I do not think that people really took the time to get to know thier future spouse.  

I must confess that I am one of those that did not date before getting married...we "prayed" about it.  Honesty, I did not know my spouse at all before marriage, but we had everyones blessing.  Our marriage has had a ton of ups and downs and has taken a ton of work.  

Many of our friends who were in small groups with us are now divorced.  I could name a long list.

On the other hand I do know of some "pastor ordained" marriages that are really good.  People who are truly happy and have great marriages.  

One situation though...a girl was good fiends with a pastor and his family, babysat for them all the time and spent tons of time with this family.  Once she told this pastor who she was attracted to and whom she felt God laid on her heart, this pastor told her that this man was not the best for her.  Thank God she did not listen to him, she married this man and they have an awesome marriage!!!  After she decided to marry him this  pastor quit having her babysit and having her spend time with his family!!!

So sad and crazy!  It is all so sick, it makes my stomach turn.
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namaste
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« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2007, 06:51:21 pm »

Quote from: "randomous"
Again, the question wasn't one of people who are members of GC churches, the question was people married by GC pastors.  Which includes people who leave.  I think it's a much more relevant stat when it comes to the pastors' credibility in marriage counseling.  
And nationally, the stat with evangelical churches is around 50%.  
The reason people stay together is important, but I think more important is that they're committed to each other before God to stick it out regardless.  If people left marriages because they weren't "happy" all the time, we'd have... oh, wait, we'd have exactly what we have going on in our country right now.  Not to mention that it's pretty hard to be happy if the person you love isn't committed to you.


Given that all indications are that ex-GCers are not in contact with church members (particularly pastors) just how does GC come up with these kinds of stats?  The only time I've ever been contacted by a GCx pastor since we've left was to solicit us to purchase life insurance from them.  If my husband and I got divorced, how the heck would they know about it?  Does GCx have moles in the county courthouses checking the divorce filings to see if the names match member rosters?

And regarding divorce and why people choose to do so, I find it hilarious that people who aren't married (and have never been married) know oh-so-much about what makes a fulfilling, successful marriage.  Have you even been in a serious relationship?!  Yeah, you know all about marriage. :roll:

I know someone who got divorced while she was a part of a GCx church.  Her husband was addicted to pornography, secretly ran up thousands of dollars in credit card bills (spent on porn), and the pastors refused to do anything about it.  In the end, he refused to change, continued running up huge bills, and the pastors lectured her constantly on why she was a sinner for considering divorce, while turning a seemingly blind eye to her husband's transgressions.

The pastors, you see, knew a couple would want to get divorced eventually, and decided they needed to "take a stand" against divorce.  Unfortunately, that meant that this woman was "targeted" for LEGITIMATELY wanting a divorce (that arguably had biblical basis).

Ultimately, she was forced to divorce him as it was the only way she could separate herself financially from him.  Happiness (or lack thereof) didn't have anything to do with it.

The church was happy to brand her with a "scarlet letter," but the pastors weren't interested in doing what they could to support the marriage (ie, by forcing the husband into rehab/counseling, or providing the funds to do either of those things).
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Om, shanti.
MidnightRider
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« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2007, 03:14:16 pm »

99 times out of 100, you can run into the street without looking and not get hit by a car. It's still a bad idea to do it.

I don't think issues like this should be resolved by statistics. Are GCx elders exceeding their Biblical authority in telling people whom they should (not) marry? I saw a case or 2 where they did, and others on this site have reported some other examples.

I don't think the Bible gives elders this kind of authority. And therefore I do not care if their divorce rate is 1% or 99%. It is still wrong.
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Barry
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« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2009, 08:06:14 pm »

..Mark Darling alway Mentioned that him and Jesus both started preaching at age 33..Mark always seen himself in the same light as Jesus..As a reincarnation figure of the Messiah...
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pvitartas
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« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2013, 04:15:41 pm »

Truly sad. 

IMO, I was demeaned, so was my sister in Solid Rock, late 70's.

We were involved in a blitz from Ohio State to Ann Arbor, Univ of Michigan. One of the budding leaders, now a major leader in the church, had "leading" that he was to marry a woman who had "leading" that she was supposed to be with me.

I was not aware of this until after that fact...

I was sent out with her to witness, pass out tracts, etc.  This seemed unusual, since we were normally paired up by the same gender.

To my knowledge, he won the "lottery" and later married her.  I felt so demeaned, I guess I was being used as a test to see who she really liked best...This was done with his permission and knowledge, so she could apparently come to her senses.
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araignee19
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« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2013, 07:04:08 pm »

Guys, I found a link that was most applicable to this post. You must listen to it. You simply must. Be forewarned: It is long. And you may want to have pencil nearby, as it directly addresses the issue of dating, being a cult, and marriage relationships, as well as showing exactly what I mean by utilitarian lingo. Itís by a pastor from Salt Lake.

http://www.rockisu.com/sermon/encounter-2006-sunday-am-the-power-of-distraction

Anyone know where we can find this again? I haven't looked, so it might be easy...
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OLMG
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« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2014, 03:41:19 am »

DSo I started talking to a girl who goes to Walnut Creek. I was at first super encouraged because the church seemed to believe in things that I hold as important such as Eternal Life and the future kingdom, but for some reason red flags started. popping up in my mind but I couldn't figure out why. I've genuinely started to care about this girl; So what can I do to help her besides pray for her and encourage her to stay close with her immediate family? I'm getting the idea that my pursuing of this girl may be shot down by the church if what I've read about the church is true. Sad
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Huldah
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« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2014, 07:46:03 am »

To the extent that she's open to your input, just keep encouraging her to stay close to her family and her pre-GC friends, if she has any. Encourage her to read her Bible for herself as much as possible, especially the New Testament. (During my time at Solid Rock, I actually did very little personal Bible reading. I got the vast majority of my input at the teaching sessions, which was a big mistake.) If she has outside interests, such as a hobby or career goals, be supportive of those, too.

There are two possible approaches to falsehood: directly challenge the falsehood, or else concentrate on pointing the victim to the truth. Pray for wisdom about which approach to take, and when, and how. In fact, prayer is the key to all of it. This is a spiritual war that requires spiritual weapons. God has chosen to act through the prayers of his people.

Your courtship may indeed be shot down, although I hope it won't. But even if that happens, it doesn't mean you can't have a positive influence on her during the time you've been given. Sometimes, even the smallest gestures of support and kindness go a long way toward helping someone make the break.
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