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Author Topic: Faithwalkers 2011  (Read 48451 times)
Linda
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« Reply #140 on: April 16, 2018, 09:02:27 am »

GTA, Jeromy referred to a “crystal clear recollection”. A recollection is a memory. Perhaps he chose his words poorly.

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Linda
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« Reply #141 on: April 16, 2018, 09:11:05 am »

Suzanne says one thing about that meeting.

Jeromy says something else.

ECC said she was fully heard on the matter of sexual abuse in their ill advised reply Tweet. A few weeks later they changed it to spiritual abuse.

Who has the most to lose here if these allegations are true? ECC

What do the victims have to gain? Not a whole lot.

What do the victims have to lose if they are lying? A lot.

Questions to ponder while we wait for each side to state their case in a manner they see fitting and fair.


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Linda
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« Reply #142 on: April 16, 2018, 09:15:56 am »

Quote from: GTA
This is your moment to prove that "elder run" churches are unequivocally wrong in your opinion, and will validate your long held opinions of this church.

FYI: I believe an elder run church is the best form of church government. I’ve always said that. Many times. On this forum.

I also believe that ECC doesn’t have a clue as to what an elder run church is.

And, now, they are saying that financial and legal matters are handled by the BOT, so are they a Trustee run church?
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arrogantcat
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« Reply #143 on: April 16, 2018, 09:31:03 am »

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What do the victims have to gain?

Discrediting a church movement they regard with contempt. A chance to find purpose during a difficult life stage. There are many potential reasons.

Quote
What do the victims have to lose if they are lying?

Nothing. They know they aren't going to get sued. Their friends, family and supporters will continue to be friends, family and supporters regardless of the outcome of any investigation.

This line of argumentation has no merit.
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Linda
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« Reply #144 on: April 16, 2018, 09:44:18 am »

Motive is important in investigations. Who has something to lose? Or, something to gain?

Also, if Suzanne is making this up (and making up victims), absolutely there will and should be consequences.

For sure loss of reputation.

Ironically, the attempt to discredit her now by speaking ill of her before the story has been fully told is troubling?

What if the allegations are true? Will you all be ashamed that you called her a liar, a crazy person, a criminal, and gossiped about her marriage? Because if the allegations are true, you should be ashamed.

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Linda
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« Reply #145 on: April 16, 2018, 09:45:46 am »

FYI: The traditional meaning of “elder led” is different than the ECC meaning.
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arrogantcat
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« Reply #146 on: April 16, 2018, 10:08:25 am »

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Also, if Suzanne is making this up (and making up victims), absolutely there will and should be consequences.

By predictably refusing to participate in the investigation, she has shielded herself from any real consequences.


Quote
Ironically, the attempt to discredit her now by speaking ill of her before the story has been fully told is troubling?

So she and those who support her are the only ones who are allowed to speak ill of people and attempt to discredit them "before the story has been fully told"?

And what part of the story has been left untold? She isn't cooperating with the investigator. She has been public with her accusations. It isn't as though she is going to keep quiet once the investigation has concluded. Are those who do not find her credible supposed to remain silent in perpetuity?
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Greentruth
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« Reply #147 on: April 16, 2018, 10:54:10 am »

Linda, I know I’m just a drive by as you say, but I read the newest posts on my lunch break, so as to know how to pray. Especially for Suzanne and her family. I have a question, as it would appear that you are her spokesperson. Is she, and John, aware that her and her situation with MD being used to attack the Church as a whole? Not just ECC, as your claims how ECC is run would be quite similar to the Church I’m at now, and even many of the larger Denomination Churches. And is she ok with the line of attack you take while using her as a tool in this attack?  Just looking to clarify if your approach to all this is her stance also, as she is mixed in with your statements regularly.  Thank you
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Linda
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« Reply #148 on: April 16, 2018, 11:04:55 am »

Her original tweet was #metoo

That means sexual abuse. That’s what the #metoo thing is about.

She posted about her Tweet on the forum on January 5th. That was the first I ever heard of it and only because she chose to post about it on the forum. I think I asked her how we would see her Tweet and she gave us her Twitter handle.

From the start she has claimed sexual abuse.

She has also expressed it in person to a number of us.

I am not Suzanne’s spokesperson.

There were some who were suggesting that she was referring to dirty jokes, or probing questions. Those fall under the covert category of sexual abuse. I think we asked her to clarify. At that point she said it was both covert and overt abuse.

Asking for clarification isn’t prompting.
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #149 on: April 16, 2018, 11:33:40 am »

I read the thread - you didn't simply ask for clarification. You were pushing for every detail. It was weird, frankly.

And then there was this quote from Suzanne: "Sometimes our bodies know what was done to us long before we have the words to name it. Those that help to name it, help to free us."

You helped her name it something it was not.
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arrogantcat
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« Reply #150 on: April 16, 2018, 11:51:13 am »

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Asking for clarification isn’t prompting.

It literally is.
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Huldah
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« Reply #151 on: April 16, 2018, 11:57:04 am »

Is she, and John, aware that her and her situation with MD being used to attack the Church as a whole? Not just ECC, as your claims how ECC is run would be quite similar to the Church I’m at now, and even many of the larger Denomination Churches.

Could you elaborate on that? Specifically, is this situation being discussed on another website, in addition to FB, Twitter, & GCMWarning? And if so, could you post a link?
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #152 on: April 16, 2018, 01:26:48 pm »

Linda, I didn't know you had such a career!  Co-fabricating a story about clergy sexual misconduct, being a secret spokesperson for another woman, using social media to make it look like it's all the alleged victim but you have been a co-conspirator the whole time.  Or a coach?  Dang!  This sounds like some sort of movie.  It is amazing what some people want to believe other than considering the possibility that a man with a title of pastor might be guilty of shady behavior.  Let me know if you want help writing your memoirs.

Pressing an erection in to a woman and running a hand on her upper thigh, allegations that were made, are considered sexual contact. Aren't we all discussing "extended hugs" (another part of the allegation) now because of Bill Hybels anyway?  Gross, gross, inappropriate, gross.  Yes, there are legal definitions, professional definitions, employment requirements, etc.  THIS IS A CHURCH!  This is supposed to be the bride of Christ, the body of Christ.  A member of our body has spoken up in the best way she knew how to get attention (after trying "the right way" and being ignored) to say "There is a wolf in our midst who did these things to me, and not only did he do them, but other leaders let him get away with it," after she realized the wolf had likely preyed upon others.  

I have absolutely no qualms that it will influence people negatively for the gospel by standing with her and saying "we need to get to the bottom of this!"  People are leaving the institutional church in droves because they see the hypocrisy of the church acting as "employer."  The church wants to be primarily an employer, fine.  They want to hide behind the letter of the law, fine.  They're an employer who makes decision independent of the greater Church.  
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omelianchuk
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« Reply #153 on: April 16, 2018, 02:08:11 pm »

Pressing an erection in to a woman and running a hand on her upper thigh, allegations that were made, are considered sexual contact.   

 You are right about this. I take back what I said. I shouldn't have been so careless. That sort of stuff can be forced. Sorry about my careless post.
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #154 on: April 16, 2018, 04:59:57 pm »

Thanks for writing that.  The story has been in different pieces in different places so it's easy to forget what was alleged.

I advocate that our standards for church leadership are such that inappropriate behavior isn't even initiated, because "forced" is a tricky word when it comes to pastor/parishioner.  In WI sexual contact is not allowed between counseling clergy and members, regardless of "force" or consent because of the nature of the relationship.  Never okay, and the responsibility is always on the pastor.  Whether it's abuse or assault or misconduct might make a difference from a legal aspect, but none of them should be tolerated within the body of Christ.

Pressing an erection in to a woman and running a hand on her upper thigh, allegations that were made, are considered sexual contact.   

 You are right about this. I take back what I said. I shouldn't have been so careless. That sort of stuff can be forced. Sorry about my careless post.
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arrogantcat
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« Reply #155 on: April 17, 2018, 06:50:21 am »

That is Evergreen's standard as well.
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #156 on: April 17, 2018, 07:03:33 am »

That is Evergreen's standard as well.

Exactly. 
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DarthVader
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« Reply #157 on: April 17, 2018, 08:53:36 am »

Pressing an erection in to a woman and running a hand on her upper thigh, allegations that were made, are considered sexual contact.   

 You are right about this. I take back what I said. I shouldn't have been so careless. That sort of stuff can be forced. Sorry about my careless post.
Adam, you're a thoughtful person - one of not many on here. I'd encourage you to keep engaging on this forum as it needs more thoughtful voices, who can admit wrong, be influenced by others and have influence on others. It elevates the discussion greatly, and the discussion needs elevated.
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Linda
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« Reply #158 on: April 18, 2018, 07:49:54 am »

Quote from: huldah
I've heard the tape, too. The audio is at the Great Commission website,
http://gccweb.org/media-and-resources/audio/#preacher-sort_mark-darling, scroll down to "12.31.11 Main Session 3: Blessed to Be Forgiven".
Is this the talk, or did they replace it with another?
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araignee19
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« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2018, 08:08:08 am »

Pretty sure that is the correct talk.
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