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Author Topic: GCC in crisis?  (Read 2762 times)
Linda
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« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2019, 12:38:39 pm »

The purpose of this forum is to expose and discuss unsound teaching in GCx churches. Many of us pray for eyes to be opened and Truth to be seen so that unsound teaching will be corrected and those damaged by it will see the error and find healing in Godís Truth.
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Huldah
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« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2019, 01:20:31 pm »

It would be a mistake to assume that no one here prays for the people of GCx.

Could you cite an example of anyone here encouraging people to destroy the movement? I know of at least one person who believes that God Himself will bring the movement to an end, but that's her personal opinion, not a forum consensus. And besides, believing that God will bring a thing about is very different from encouraging other people to do it.
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Lost Creature
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 12:25:54 pm »

Could you cite an example of anyone here encouraging people to destroy the movement?

ReaperofGCM, Ghost and Janet in particular seem to desire this result...

I am not saying that they or anyone else should be banned for having such a desire.
I struggled with that desire myself when I learned more about the movement's history.

My point is, if this is a forum dedicated to finding the truth of GCX,
we need to see it's leaders and congregations as people, not paint them as monsters or villains.

I know most who post here stick to their stories and rarely does anyone here say the word, monster, when describing GCX leaders.
But it's all in the tone of the writing of many here...a desire to make the leaders seem inhuman so that it's easier to hate what they stand for.
This does not benefit anyone, especially those who are recovering from spiritual abuse.

McCotter may not be the Godly man people remember him being...but that shouldn't keep us from viewing him and those in the movement as humans.
Yes, we should look at the truth and be willing to discuss it...but not to the point where we forget we are all made in the image of God...

Even if this was not your intent with this forum, this seems to be what it has become.
But that's not how it has to be...
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Linda
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 04:46:17 pm »

Quote from: Lost Creature
My point is, if this is a forum dedicated to finding the truth of GCX,
we need to see it's leaders and congregations as people, not paint them as monsters or villains.

This forum is NOT dedicated to "finding the truth of GCx".

The purpose of this forum is for:

1. Former members of a GCx church to
2. Discuss problems they have had with
3. The churchís practice
4. and theology.

I would venture to say that before leaving most everyone posting here spent many hours and perhaps many years trying to help GCx elders correct their unsound teaching that has damaged many lives for DECADES.

The elders chose not to correct their error because they SINCERELY believe they are right and those calling their teaching unsound are wrong.

Having strong theological differences and pointing out damage this theology has caused to the lives and faith of hundreds of people is NOT painting them as monsters.

It is painting some of their theology as flawed. Maybe they are terrible people, or maybe they are just misled or deceived, that is not up to us to decide. The purpose of this forum is to discuss the bad theology and practice and warn others about it. Hence: gcmwarning.com

On the other hand, people who disagree with the purpose of this forum have repeatedly, for years, come on the forum, and questioned the character and sanity of those who post here.

If you want to talk about people portraying others as villains and monsters, you might start here with things Jeromy Darling said, while, I might add, on the payroll of ECC.

Here is a short list I put together last June.

To Huldah: "You've relentlessly hounded my father and my churches and this movement. You DID force me here when you embraced and spread a lie. Show me the decency of READING the entire letter, not skimming it (otherwise proving you're terrified of the truth)."

To Me: "You want what most of the other regular users on this forum have wanted for years: the humiliation of our churches."

To GodIsFaithful: "I'm sure Jesus and Paul and any number of other godly men may have appeared that way at times - you apparently haven't spent enough time in the Word as I'm only trying to model their behavior."

To Boggs: "This entire website stands as a billboard for the the loveless Christian life"

To g_prince: "I am however beginning to wonder how many pastors have been spiritually abused by their former congregants..."

On why he can violate the rules of the forum and out members: "First of all I outed a two people. Chris and Jason. Secondly, I do not recognize the owners of this website or this website itself as having any Authority in my life, Ergo I dont recognize the rules they set out. "

To me: "And for the record, when you disagree with a public figure - NO ONE EVEN NEEDS TO KNOW. The fact that you think your opinion about a pastor or politician, posted on a website, is valuable to the world is the height of hubris. You've never run a church and don't have the first idea how to. Leaving me to conclude that the only reason you continue posting on this website is for your own personal validation and self gratitude. In fact, since everyone on this site seems so interested in the latest spiritual topics and terms, let me introduce a new one here: spiritual masturbation."

About Suzanne making up the story: "I KNOW no names have been submitted because the evidence points exclusively to Suzanne making all of the victims up. "

About investigation the character of an alleged victim AND HER HUSBAND: "And for the record, this investigator is not only digging deep into my father's life, she's digging deep into John and Suzanne's."

To the group: "Since there is no Biblical basis for running a site like this I can safely assume that most users on here are either grossly ignorant or are not real Christians at all. You guys could all be out volunteering, preaching the Gospel, saving souls, doing anything other than posting here over and over again, spiritually masturbating each other in an effort to validate your self worth and your knowledge, while perpetuating (or silently approving of) disgusting lies about my father."

To me: "Linda, disagreeing isn't hate. Even I know that. You've spent more time on this website than you ever spent in a GCC church or listening to my father speak. You have reserved much of your ire for a man you barely even had any conversations with, and you've dished out all your advice and warnings having never founded or a led a church on any conceivable level. This shows empirically that you're both filled with pride AND hate while simultaneously caught up in a savior's complex the likes of which I've never seen before."

Calling Suzanne a liar: "Suzanne said that my dad asked about her and her current boyfriend's sexual positions, but she didn't have a boyfriend when she met my dad and she and John did not have sex until they were married. Know how I know that? Because Suzanne used to tease John about their wedding night. See John was a virgin. And up until they first had sex he thought women got pregnant through their belly button. I actually always found that very endearing about John and his commitment to sexual Integrity before marriage. Anyone care to unravel this lie?"

Suggesting Suzanne is mentally ill" "See either Suzanne thinks we're to stupid to catch these things, or she's struggling mentally much more than any of you realize - which one is worse?"

To me when I quoted something his dad said to Terry and I at our last private meeting. Jeromy was not present.: "Another fat stinking lie Linda. My goodness. There's enough (Ad nauseam) lies from you, just in this website, about my father, to fill a volume of defamation lawsuits. This is so fantastical and so disgusting  I don't know whether to laugh or weep but it's now your MO."

I ask you, who is doing the judging?

Who is doing the vilifying?

Who is trying to portray others as unsaved villains?

It is not the former members who are trying to discuss problems they have experienced with the teaching and practice of GCx.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 07:41:45 pm by Linda » Logged

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ReaperofGCM
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2019, 09:19:54 am »

Could you cite an example of anyone here encouraging people to destroy the movement?

ReaperofGCM, Ghost and Janet in particular seem to desire this result...

I am not saying that they or anyone else should be banned for having such a desire.
I struggled with that desire myself when I learned more about the movement's history.

My point is, if this is a forum dedicated to finding the truth of GCX,
we need to see it's leaders and congregations as people, not paint them as monsters or villains.

I know most who post here stick to their stories and rarely does anyone here say the word, monster, when describing GCX leaders.
But it's all in the tone of the writing of many here...a desire to make the leaders seem inhuman so that it's easier to hate what they stand for.
This does not benefit anyone, especially those who are recovering from spiritual abuse.

McCotter may not be the Godly man people remember him being...but that shouldn't keep us from viewing him and those in the movement as humans.
Yes, we should look at the truth and be willing to discuss it...but not to the point where we forget we are all made in the image of God...

Even if this was not your intent with this forum, this seems to be what it has become.
But that's not how it has to be...

You are absolutely correct about this. You are also making the assumption that everyone here is a Christian. Since this is a public forum,
it is not Huldahs fault whether or not someone like me comes on this forum to state my opinion. You clearly have no idea how deep
the rabbit hole goes with this movement. I also don't believe that someone like Jim McCotter is or ever was a "godly man". I also don't believe
a human should teach others to beat their child enough to draw blood.
So yes Lost Creature, I wish this movement didn't exist and I wish the fallout from this wasn't so painful for so many people.
I have previously stated that I am not a Christian. I don't follow God, I don't believe in God. That is clearly my opinion. I also believe
it allows me to view this through a completely different lens than those who are still apart of the movement, continuing to drink the kool aid
for either nostalgia purposes or fearing that you will lose your friends.
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Huldah
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2019, 02:32:59 pm »

Lost Creature, I've heard that there are others within the GC movement who are working for the same kind of change you want. I don't know how to make contact with them, but you still know a lot of people in the movement, don't you? Maybe you could figure out how to get in touch with them and join forces. Together you might be able to accomplish the changes you're hoping for. Most of us here (those who are still believers, that is) have no interest in reforming GCx because we tried, it went badly for us, and we concluded that God had nothing more for us within the movement. But that doesn't mean you can't try. God may use you where He chose not to use us.

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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2019, 10:46:17 am »

I wanted to respond to Lost Creature saying that he was troubled that some on this forum seem to be ready to "rejoice in the inevitable collapse" of the GCx movement.

For years after we were told to leave and did leave the GCx movement after 18 years (because we respectfully talked to the pastors about some concerns we had; we found out they did not want people in the church who were not completely on the same page) I had the philosophy, which I thought was Biblical, that I would rejoice that the gospel was being preached in GCx even though I saw many things that were not right.

However, I now *would* rejoice if the GCx movement went away, crumbled, fell apart. Not because I have any animus toward any of the people in GCx, but because I see that the leaders and pastors of GCx twist the gospel to such an extent that people in the movement are entrapped in a system that glorifies and magnifies the leaders of the movement rather than Jesus Christ. The leaders usurp the authority that belongs only to God and enslave their members in a system that takes the focus off of Jesus. We can all see now how the head honchos of this movement have abused their authority in many spheres. The Mark Darling debacle brought it to a head.

From my experience and from many on this forum, when a person leaves the movement it is painful at first but then the freedom of reading and understanding the Bible independently of controlling and heavy handed pastors is extremely liberating. This is where real recovery and healing can take place. It also helps to talk with others who have left the movement. We all had different experiences, but also a lot in common. The GCx movement is cultish, no doubt about it, and it takes time to "debrief".

The mountain of unsound doctrine and practice, and the many instances of abuse of power, are the reasons why I would be happy if this movement was gone.
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Huldah
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« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2019, 11:45:12 am »

Okay, so I guess I was wrong and there are people who would like to see this movement shut down entirely. However, wishing it would go away is still a far cry from "encouraging victims to destroy the movement," which was the original accusation:

(This forum)... has become a place where victims are encouraged to destroy this movement, instead of praying for it...

Lost Creature, you said that we dehumanize the leaders of the movement, but don't you think it dehumanizes us when you make exaggerated accusations?

I for one have never thought God was going to destroy the movement. He has allowed far more destructive systems to continue and even flourish (think of Islam, Mormonism, or Scientology, to name a few). There's no reason to believe He would destroy a church that at least adheres to the Gospel, although in a very imperfect and legalistic way. I would rather see GCx reformed than abolished, but they've resisted any such reforms from the very beginning. Until they do reform, those who know about the errors and abuses have a duty to warn others. I wish someone had been there to warn me.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:33:44 pm by Huldah » Logged
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