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Author Topic: My understanding of the Great (C)ommission:  (Read 36503 times)
Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2018, 08:47:21 am »

GTA. it's clear to me that your definition of "gossip" is basically "any information that shows my church in a worse light than I wish to see it portrayed, even if that information is true and helpful to others who are struggling." I don't think we can have a fruitful or edifying conversation as long as you persist in that mode.

But us humans have emotions, and opinions and prejudices that muddy up our perceptions.  So saying information is true is one thing, but someone sharing an emotional experience, and how an event made them feel is completely different.  And yes we wont be able to have a fruitful conversation on this matter.  I will ask God to prompt you to read everything His word  has to say on the matter and leave it at that, as I think your perception would change if you did so.  
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2018, 08:48:08 am »

A telltale mark of GCx attendees is the use of “slander” for things that aren’t slander.  
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2018, 08:50:03 am »

A telltale mark of GCx attendees is the use of “slander” for things that aren’t slander.  

so what is your definition of slander and gossip, I am curious.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2018, 08:50:08 am »

GTA. it's clear to me that your definition of "gossip" is basically "any information that shows my church in a worse light than I wish to see it portrayed, even if that information is true and helpful to others who are struggling." I don't think we can have a fruitful or edifying conversation as long as you persist in that mode.

But us humans have emotions, and opinions and prejudices that muddy up our perceptions.  So saying information is true is one thing, but someone sharing an emotional experience, and how an event made them feel is completely different.  And yes we wont be able to have a fruitful conversation on this matter.  I will ask God to prompt you to read everything His word  has to say on the matter and leave it at that, as I think your perception would change if you did so.  


This is so self righteous it’s not even funny.  You’re saying if someone listened to God better, they’d agree with you.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 09:01:39 am by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2018, 08:52:33 am »

A telltale mark of GCx attendees is the use of “slander” for things that aren’t slander.  

so what is your definition of slander and gossip, I am curious.


By your definition every single memoir or biography would be gossip.  Any testimony would be slander.  It’s so nuts.  And it’s classic GC from the earliest of days and it’s a big time warning sign of a high control group. You’ve heard the playbook so much, you’ve become it.
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Huldah
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« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2018, 08:54:04 am »

GTA, you're human too. You're as vulnerable to perception problems as anyone else. Because we are challenging an institution which is dear to you,  you may be perceiving us to be something far worse than we really are. Objectively, how can you know whether it is you who have the perception problem, or us? Objectively, how can you determine this?

Not a rhetorical question.
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Huldah
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« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2018, 08:57:08 am »

You’ve heard the playbook so much, you’ve become it.
Sadly, I think this is exactly the case.

EDIT TO ADD: And I don't mean this in a judgemental or unkind way. I was very defensive of Solid Rock when I was a new member, too. I stayed until I could no longer defend them even to myself.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 08:59:13 am by Huldah » Logged
AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2018, 09:06:53 am »

A telltale mark of GCx attendees is the use of “slander” for things that aren’t slander.  

so what is your definition of slander and gossip, I am curious.


Slander is a lie.  I don’t tell lies.  It’s a huge deal with me.  If you knew me in real life you would know I don’t lie and I don’t accept dishonesty.


Gossip is about a specific person telling stories that aren’t yours to tell in a situation where it is unproductive.   Telling a police officer a story— not gossip.  Telling your mom. Not gossip.  Warning someone away.  Not gossip.  Telling your own story— not gossip. Telling a story you have permission to tell. Not gossip. Not naming names if unsure of the veracity but uncovering serious situations — not gossip.

Telling a congregation a false or misleading story about someone who left is both slander and gossip by the way. 
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2018, 10:24:23 am »

A telltale mark of GCx attendees is the use of “slander” for things that aren’t slander.  

so what is your definition of slander and gossip, I am curious.


By your definition every single memoir or biography would be gossip.  Any testimony would be slander.  It’s so nuts.  And it’s classic GC from the earliest of days and it’s a big time warning sign of a high control group. You’ve heard the playbook so much, you’ve become it.

fact:  I have not been controlled. 
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araignee19
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« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2018, 10:31:46 am »

Opinion: you have not been controlled. Right? Or else, how can you call that a fact and yet my story is only opinion?
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Huldah
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« Reply #90 on: March 29, 2018, 10:47:42 am »

This is how I know I can look at this site objectively, because I use scripture as my lens... This site is not a picture of forgiveness, repenting (how can it be when it is one sided), of what we are to fix our thoughts on, of grace, of love, of peace, of trusting God.

But those are your perceptions. They are not objective. You perceive us to be this way because your emotional attachment to your church is skewing the way you interpret everything you read here. That's a perfectly normal, human reaction, but it's not an example of objectivity.

   Please share some verses from Scripture that validate this forum....this is not rhetorical. 
I have to leave the house for a while, but I'll get back to you on that this evening.
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HughHoney
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« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2018, 10:50:50 am »

Can we get a verse that validates you leaving the house first?
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #92 on: March 29, 2018, 11:49:12 am »

Can we get a verse that validates you leaving the house first?

do you not value what God's word has to say for our actions?
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Linda
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« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2018, 12:42:09 pm »

Quote from: HughHoney
Can we get a verse that validates you leaving the house first?

Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might... Eccl. 9:10
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Huldah
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« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2018, 12:56:06 pm »

"The LORD will guard your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forever." Psalm 121:8.

(Thanks for the laugh, Hugh!)

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Differentstrokes
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« Reply #95 on: March 29, 2018, 01:05:40 pm »

This made laugh, you guys are awesome
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2018, 01:45:04 pm »

"The LORD will guard your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forever." Psalm 121:8.

(Thanks for the laugh, Hugh!)




😂😂😂😂😂😂😬😬
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GretchenGail
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« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2018, 06:05:10 pm »

Quote
Not in my church and not in my family.  Many singles have been in the courtship/engagement state for less than a year and Jeromy and I were dating for 2 years, engaged for 1. Yep, together for 3 years.  Abstinent by choice and God has been faithful to us for honoring those around us who suggested we wait.  Yes, we trusted the advice of human beings, our leaders, who lovingly advised we wait to honor my parents who were not believers but NOW ARE.  The hope, in honoring my unsaved parents, was to see my precious parents come to Christ and THEY DID!!!!   God has used "waiting" in our lives to teach us patience and to rely on Him.  Funny how sometimes following the advice of people (sinners, imperfect, regular Christians who love the Lord and the Word) actually does yield an incredible testimony of your faith in Jesus Christ.  I happily submit to my leaders because they love me, they love Jesus and whenever I want I can make choices for myself.  There is a lot of peace in the body of Christ when we submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Cool! Now imagine that your experience had been that the leaders thought you shouldn’t date. You  got excommunicated if you made choices for yourself.  You probably don’t know anyone that happened to but I bet you know of a lot of people in positions of authority that absolutely made those kinds of mistakes. Good men make terrible decisions. A lot of those leaders are still in authority. And this website is in part a testimony to their mixed record.
You are right, I do not know anyone who has ever been excommunicated from my church.  Every person has made terrible decisions. That's too bad.
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Huldah
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« Reply #98 on: March 29, 2018, 09:57:18 pm »

Hey, GTA -

You asked for verses related to the purpose of this forum. The more I thought about the subject, the less it seemed like an issue of finding proof-texts, and more of an issue of the very fabric of the New Testament: that false teaching should be publicly refuted, that we are allowed to name false teachers by name, and that we are to comfort those who've been abused and oppressed. I don't see how these mandates can even be in question.

Nonetheless, here are some verses that speak to me about the work we do here on this forum:

I. WARNING OTHERS ABOUT FALSE TEACHINGS

Ephesians 5:11, And do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even expose them. (I think of this as the unofficial theme verse of the forum.)

Ezekiel 33:6, But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from he watchman's hand.

1 Timothy 4:1-6, The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus,...

II. NAMING THOSE WHO TEACH FALSE DOCTRINE

1 Timothy 1: 19-20, By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 4:14, Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.

Galations 2:11, 14, But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned... But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? (Even a beloved and effective teacher like the Apostle Peter needed public correction for teaching that was harmed the sheep.)

III. COMFORTING THOSE WHO'VE BEEN OPPRESSED OR ABUSED (AKA Healing)

2 Corinthians 1:3-4, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. (We're supposed to comfort the hurting sheep! And who better to comfort those sheep hurt by false teachers, than others who've been through the same experience?)

GTA, you talked about the people here being unforgiving, but you have no way of knowing whether we've forgiven or not. It's possible to forgive the wolf while still warning other sheep to be careful. What kind of person would I be if I said, "I know the wolf is still dangerous, but I forgive him and I'm healed, so nothing else matters. It's no skin off my nose if he finds another sheep to devour."?

Therefore, because we care about sheep other than ourselves, we forgive and we heal, but we continue to warn, we continue to name names, and we continue to try to bandage up the sheep who wander in with brand new wounds. I'm very sorry you can't see it that way.
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #99 on: March 29, 2018, 11:42:58 pm »

Hey, GTA -

You asked for verses related to the purpose of this forum. The more I thought about the subject, the less it seemed like an issue of finding proof-texts, and more of an issue of the very fabric of the New Testament: that false teaching should be publicly refuted, that we are allowed to name false teachers by name, and that we are to comfort those who've been abused and oppressed. I don't see how these mandates can even be in question.

Nonetheless, here are some verses that speak to me about the work we do here on this forum:

I. WARNING OTHERS ABOUT FALSE TEACHINGS

Ephesians 5:11, And do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even expose them. (I think of this as the unofficial theme verse of the forum.)

Ezekiel 33:6, But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from he watchman's hand.

1 Timothy 4:1-6, The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. If you point these things out to the brothers and sisters you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus,...

II. NAMING THOSE WHO TEACH FALSE DOCTRINE

1 Timothy 1: 19-20, By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 4:14, Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.

Galations 2:11, 14, But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned... But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? (Even a beloved and effective teacher like the Apostle Peter needed public correction for teaching that was harmed the sheep.)

III. COMFORTING THOSE WHO'VE BEEN OPPRESSED OR ABUSED (AKA Healing)

2 Corinthians 1:3-4, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. (We're supposed to comfort the hurting sheep! And who better to comfort those sheep hurt by false teachers, than others who've been through the same experience?)

GTA, you talked about the people here being unforgiving, but you have no way of knowing whether we've forgiven or not. It's possible to forgive the wolf while still warning other sheep to be careful. What kind of person would I be if I said, "I know the wolf is still dangerous, but I forgive him and I'm healed, so nothing else matters. It's no skin off my nose if he finds another sheep to devour."?

Therefore, because we care about sheep other than ourselves, we forgive and we heal, but we continue to warn, we continue to name names, and we continue to try to bandage up the sheep who wander in with brand new wounds. I'm very sorry you can't see it that way.

These are good verses but I don't feel this is enough to validate what this forum is.  I guess when I think of forgiveness, I think of God's example of our forgiveness of our sin, forgiveness means forgetting; to remember no more, the slate wiped clean.  I feel like true forgiveness means you move on, you don't think about it, it does not conjure up feelings any more. 

We will never see eye to eye regarding this forum and it's appropriateness, or if false teaching is happening in our churches.  This particular subject has hit quite a nerve with me, as I have quite in interest in false teaching, and what is going on in the in new and upcoming trends in Christianity, because I have kids that will need to discover their own faith apart from me, and I want to be prepared for what they may encounter.  I have spent much personal time researching this issue over the past 10 years.   What is happening with in modern Christianity is scary, preaching there is no hell, preaching only Grace (Rob Bell), and modern day prophets, new age mysticism, and so on.  And the largest and most popular false teaching movement is Word Faith, which believes that the Bible is great, but God has more to say that is beyond the Bible and will give special revelations to prophets,  that our words have power that supersedes God's omnipotence, whoa.  These teachers are promoting a false gospel-heaven on earth mentality; we should not be sick and all Christians should be wealthy, we are like God (not just made in his image).   And chances are many of us listen to or read their beliefs....Joyce Meyers, Joel Olsteen, Kennth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Bill Johnson out of Bethel in Redding CA, and so on.  And look at their reach because of modern communications and TV.  The depth of their false teaching is mind blowing.  And then there is this little example: 

Excerpts from Kenneth Copeland sermon and notes

Still, Copeland insists “Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross and took His spirit to the dark regions of hell” (emphasis in original).71 Copeland’s description of Christ’s ordeal in hell is nothing short of chilling: “He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell….He allowed Himself to come under Satan’s control…every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him….They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer.”72

The situation seemed hopeless, as Jesus’ “emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing; and the devil thinks he’s got Him destroyed.”73 However, Copeland explains that “Satan fell into the trap. He took Him [Jesus] into hell illegally. He carried Him in there [when] He did not sin.”74 God found the opening He needed: “That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life….Jesus was born again — the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him — and He whipped the devil in his own backyard.”75

Copeland’s account, vivid though it may be, is not in the Bible. It misuses the phrase “firstborn from the dead” (Col. 1:18) to bolster the “born again Jesus” doctrine. Actually, the term “firstborn” (Greek: prototokos) primarily denotes primacy, headship, and preeminence. And the phrase itself points to Christ’s supremacy “over all creation” (v. 15) in general and those who will be raised from the dead in particular (alluding to Christ’s bodily resurrection — not some spiritual resuscitation in hell).


What I know of and read, and what I experience and hear in my own church...there is no false teaching in GCx.



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