Report will be posted Sunday

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[UffDa]

Listening to Brent Knox praise Mark Darling right now.  He might as spit on the women victims he FAILED.  I can't even believe what I'm hearing.

They didn't remove enough pastors.

I had to turn it off. Made me ill. I am writing the man a letter but I suspect he can't be moved. Is more concerned about his own suffering. Disgusting.

I agree!!! I’m nauseous after listening to Brent’s message. Even when he mentions that the BOT will have a process for members to address issues with the pastors he still acts as if he’s really approachable.
I can’t stand the way he tried to diminish the accusations of the women.

[OneOfMany]

I have a problem with the annual reviews if those reviews do not include all members having the opportunity to contribute. Brent said that the pastors will review each other, and might invite some others in. That is not going to be helpful.

[araignee19]

Some good steps. Assuming they follow through, I would call all of those recommendations big steps for this organization. Doesn’t go quite far enough, but sometimes when things are really dysfunctional, it takes a few rounds of fixes. Benefit of doubt.

But there are some major misses here! There should be no path back to ordination for Mark. Grace does not mean you get to continue being a pastor if you do not meet the qualifications. This makes me think they will have him resign on paid leave until this all blows over. Once the spotlight is off them, Mark can be brought back. Not ok.

I want more details about how 18 years ago Brent could have stopped this. Why was that glossed over!?

Also, where are the consequences for Jeromy? He should be removed from ministry as well. His behavior through all of this was reprehensible. At the very least, he owes some MAJOR public apologies.

Overall, I am surprised. Need to process some more.

[Barb]

Where is the apology??? Where? Andy has offered the most appropriate response, in my opinion, grief for the victims, for the situation, for the sin and the damage it’s caused.

[Differentstrokes]

Can anyone give the spark notes on the bknox message? I am not in a place where I can listen to the message for a while, but I am interested to know what all has been said..

[OneOfMany]

Can anyone give the spark notes on the bknox message? I am not in a place where I can listen to the message for a while, but I am interested to know what all has been said..

I understand. I was not sure I could listen to it and did in fact turn it off for a while. It was not easy to hear Brent go on and on about how wonderful Mark Darling is. I am not sure I can list the points for you. I would have to listen again. And I am working today.

[Differentstrokes]

I mostly meant like, we're doing a bunch of family stuff this week and I can't physically listen to it as I'll be too busy, I plan to at some point, but if there was a short summary somewhere that would be nice!

[Barb]

Just listened to Brent’s 11:15 service. Here are the extreme cliff notes. The BOT report was read. Brent started by saying how much he loves Mark and all the impact Mark has had on his life and the lives of many.

A fair amount of talk on blind spots (his own) in not dealing with the issue in 2001. A talk on his own personality. An “apology” to the woman who was hurt - note singular person as victim.

Hope of restoration for Mark eventually. God’s forgiveness of our sins.

It is really a bit all over the place.

Imo, what was missing is brokenness, sincere apologies. Too much focus on Evergreen and Mark, not enough on the pain and suffering of the victims.

Andy’s message was much more appropriate in my opinion.

[Watching]

Barb - where is Andy's message?

[Barb]

It was on livestream.com. Not sure it’s anywhere currently. He started out seriously emotional and stressing how grieved he was over all of this and the harm and damage that it has caused to the victims and their families and marriages as well.

[Phoenix]

I heard the summary tonight.

Some of you may be shocked!

So, now some of you may understand why I said the second sentence.  

I have visited this forum on and off for a while, even before it was moved to this current website/tool (back as far as 2006/2008?).  I recognize Agatha and others from all those years ago before I became a member with an account.  While I feel the there were still mistakes and more could/should have been done I just hope some on here understand this is a significant for this church.

Should we be skeptical of change?  Sure, but I believe many at this church to be Christ loving and Holy Spirit filled people.  I pray this is a chance for Christ to work.

[Barb]

Yes, Phoenix! I believe there is reason for hope!!

[DarthVader]

Hey All,

I just came from the Urban Refuge service. I'll post the conclusions of the BoT which were read by our BOT member, Jeff Hudson. To echo others comments, I would encourage you to listen to the UR service when you can (it's not yet been posted to the Urban message archives yet, but will be soon, I'm guessing). My good friend, Andy I think, did as well as is possible in delivering a message that was appropriate in tone and content. Like others, I'm not entirely satisfied with the decisions themselves, and still working through my own decision on whether or not to stay.  The tension is between a location that i love, with many friends of both myself and my daughter, and a larger organization (ECC) I am not excited to be a part of (at all).

If you have any questions about what was shared, PM or post and I'll try to respond. As you all know, I have been very tough on my church, but I do have to say for all the flaws in the process and decisions, we did end up in a better place than Willow Creek, for example, with all its resources, in removing a pastor's ordination which does mean something.

Here is the summary best I can transcribe..where there are quotes, I believe Jeff is quoting the investigative report. I do trust his personal integrity without a doubt.

*Allegation of physical sexual abuse - "based on the interviews SVDs allegation of physical sexual abuse by definition could not be substantiated" and that no one knew of an allegation of physical sexual abuse prior to this January (2018)
*The investigation did however confirm that Suzanne's letter included the words "emotional/sexual abuse" but did not include an allegation of physical contact. In a 2nd draft the letter was changed to inappropriate sexual boundaries.
*In 2001 Mark Bowen was aware of 2 other women who had concerns of inappropriate conversation of sexual nature with Mark Darling . The BoT was not informed at the time.  "Evergreen church failed to take appropriate actions to misconduct allegations"
*In 2001 Mark Bowen, Brent Knox, JVD, engaged in a process to address SVD concerns but did not follow through
* "Ms. Van Dyck appears to rely on standard disparagement clauses in the severance agreement" the investigation concluded the severance agreement did not constitute hush money..
*2 additional women came forward to share similar allegations but no allegations of physical contact.
*the investigation does support the fact that MD while holding a position of authority engaged in inappropriate conduct - including time alone w/women and sexual conversation.
*Board actions - BoT unanimously agreed to rescind ordination, process in places, yada yada, church has been informed MD has resigned.
*Mark Bowen will step down as chair, BoT will supervise process to review leadership structure.

[Isthisreal?]

Wow. So happy with my church. Good job ECC. Thank you BOT for praying and seeking the Lord. Thank you for taking so much time. It was worth the wait to get things right. Mark D is muched loved and a friend. So is Suzanne. Praying for ALL of you.

[Linda]

*the investigation does support the fact that MD while holding a position of authority engaged in inappropriate conduct - including time alone w/women and sexual conversation.

Thank you for this update.

Do you recall any statement on what they will be doing to make amends to the women who were the recipients of the inappropriate conduct which included inappropriate time alone and sexual conversation" on the part of a pastor?

[DarthVader]

No statement on amends or how the victims will be approached, which is definitely a miss on their part. Far from a perfect outcome but better than many feared, worse than many hoped depending on which side of this you were on.

[Huldah]

"The most serious parts of the allegations were not substantiated."

This is not the same thing as saying: "The most serious parts of the allegations were not true." This fits neatly into the same box as, "The accusations are unjust," rather than, "The accusations are untrue."

I wonder whether it was Joan's determinaton that the allegations were unsubstantiated, or if that was the BOT's or the pastors' conclusion. Without seeing the report, there's no way of knowing.

EDIT: Okay, I just saw the other thread about the findings. I may come back and amend my response here after I've read it.

EDIT #2: It was indeed Joan who determined that "the most serious allegations," by which I assume she means accusations of physical contact, were unsubstantiated. That is, they could be neither proven nor disproven. Fair enough. On the other hand, inappropriate sexual conversations were confirmed by multiple victims, therefore those allegations are substantiated. The pastors knew from 2001 that there was a sexual component to the allegations, so the cover-up is also substantiated.

So much emotional, spiritual, and financial damage could have been avoided if the pastors had dealt with the accusations back when Suzanne first spoke up. Even in January, it wasn't too late to admit the truth, issue an apology, and try to make it right. It should never have been allowed to go as far as it did.

[mattplod]

Some good steps. Assuming they follow through, I would call all of those recommendations big steps for this organization. Doesn’t go quite far enough, but sometimes when things are really dysfunctional, it takes a few rounds of fixes. Benefit of doubt.

But there are some major misses here! There should be no path back to ordination for Mark. Grace does not mean you get to continue being a pastor if you do not meet the qualifications. This makes me think they will have him resign on paid leave until this all blows over. Once the spotlight is off them, Mark can be brought back. Not ok.

I want more details about how 18 years ago Brent could have stopped this. Why was that glossed over!?

Also, where are the consequences for Jeromy? He should be removed from ministry as well. His behavior through all of this was reprehensible. At the very least, he owes some MAJOR public apologies.

Overall, I am surprised. Need to process some more.

Not surprised they didn't acknowledge Jeromy since his unhinged rantings were all limited to this forum (and his Facebook/"Reckoning" screed). Yes he's a staff member and MD's son but if the board didn't level any real consequences at Brent or Mark Bowen why would they reprimand Jeromy?

The Rock may seriously be undone by this. It's very telling that they were the only ECC location to not acknowledge the results of the investigation in a service this weekend. Not only that they didn't even have a service! That's been MD's primary congregation for almost 20 years. Seems likely that in addition to his family leaving (which I would fully expect) other major players may be gone as well. They may not have anyone to actually put on a church service anymore or anyone to lead it. If your next generation leaders are chosen by current leadership and not the congregation what do you do when the leaders quit? Interesting conundrum if that's what's going on. Guess someone will have to stand up and declare themselves the next apostle.

[DarthVader]

The Rock had a special meeting on Saturday to hear the BoT findings and actions. I'm not sure why they didn't to it on Friday night though.

[mattplod]

The Rock had a special meeting on Saturday to hear the BoT findings and actions. I'm not sure why they didn't to it on Friday night though.

I did not know that. Thanks for the clarification. Do you know who lead it?