What is the point of this Forum?

Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

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[tonymason]

I am trying to figure out the point of this Forum. It seems to be used as a tool to pit Christians against Christians in rather agressive and damaging ways.  If this is what Christianity is about, I don't think I want what you have.  From the outside looking in this Forum appears to encourage personal attacks on one another, at least you don't see people taking a stand stating enough is enough.  Happy Posting 

[Linda]

I am trying to figure out the point of this Forum. It seems to be used as a tool to pit Christians against Christians in rather agressive and damaging ways.  If this is what Christianity is about, I don't think I want what you have.  From the outside looking in this Forum appears to encourage personal attacks on one another, at least you don't see people taking a stand stating enough is enough.  Happy Posting 

Hi tonymason,

The purpose of this forum as stated is to be a place "for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, and the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology."

If it seems like something else to you, it's probably because you aren't a former member and/or haven't experienced problems in the practices and theology of the group. So, this forum really isn't for you, although, you are welcome here.

[Greentruth]

I am trying to figure out the point of this Forum. It seems to be used as a tool to pit Christians against Christians in rather agressive and damaging ways.  If this is what Christianity is about, I don't think I want what you have.  From the outside looking in this Forum appears to encourage personal attacks on one another, at least you don't see people taking a stand stating enough is enough.  Happy Posting 

You are exactly correct in your view here. It is not by any means a healthy place to attempt to understand what the truths are surrounding ECC and MD. Fact is this forum is rooted in bitterness, bringing out very unauthentic stances and accusations. We all want simple truths, not manipulated distortions. I understand some have had issue with ECC, of which none of them would have brought me to the level of bitterness I see here. The MD issue, regardless of the actual truths, is just another tool used to manipulate and enforce what the forum attempts to accomplish.

[OneOfMany]

I am trying to figure out the point of this Forum. It seems to be used as a tool to pit Christians against Christians in rather agressive and damaging ways.  If this is what Christianity is about, I don't think I want what you have.  From the outside looking in this Forum appears to encourage personal attacks on one another, at least you don't see people taking a stand stating enough is enough.  Happy Posting 

You are exactly correct in your view here. It is not by any means a healthy place to attempt to understand what the truths are surrounding ECC and MD. Fact is this forum is rooted in bitterness, bringing out very unauthentic stances and accusations. We all want simple truths, not manipulated distortions. I understand some have had issue with ECC, of which none of them would have brought me to the level of bitterness I see here. The MD issue, regardless of the actual truths, is just another tool used to manipulate and enforce what the forum attempts to accomplish.

The manipulated distortions come from the leadership of GCM churches. Not those of us who are trying to expose the truth.

As for what the forum is about it has of late become focused on the Minneapolis locations, especially that of MD, BK, and MB. For good reason.

[Linda]

I am trying to figure out the point of this Forum. It seems to be used as a tool to pit Christians against Christians in rather agressive and damaging ways.  If this is what Christianity is about, I don't think I want what you have.  From the outside looking in this Forum appears to encourage personal attacks on one another, at least you don't see people taking a stand stating enough is enough.  Happy Posting 

You are exactly correct in your view here. It is not by any means a healthy place to attempt to understand what the truths are surrounding ECC and MD. Fact is this forum is rooted in bitterness, bringing out very unauthentic stances and accusations. We all want simple truths, not manipulated distortions. I understand some have had issue with ECC, of which none of them would have brought me to the level of bitterness I see here. The MD issue, regardless of the actual truths, is just another tool used to manipulate and enforce what the forum attempts to accomplish.

I am going to push back in a big way here.

You have no idea the damage that has been done to some (clearly not all) by their involvement in GCC churches. I choose to believe that you are unaware of these things because if you did know, you would be heartless to say what you just said. These are fellow Christians. They have been harmed. Many don't post, but I see them logged on and reading.

I am talking about not just things like lost friendships because people no longer have time for you when you leave, but things that are even worse like years of counseling and hospitalizations. By many people. Over many years. Starting in the 70's.

For those people it is helpful to know this forum exists and that they have (or used to have) a safe place to go to find out they are not alone.

[Greentruth]

I’m sorry Linda, but I spent three months reading and trying to understand this forum, before I ever shared, and still did not understand why some hold onto issues they say they had. Maybe it’s because I experienced several extremely hurtful situations, of which I have shared, and gave it to a God after trying to help those who hurt me.Most Christians that do experince hurtful situations in their life seek God and give it to Him to sort out. I can’t imagine living for God without giving hurtful issues to Him. Sure, we are not doormat’s, when we see something that’s hurtful we speak out, and then trust God-to deal with it. And He does, EVERY time, if you give it to Him from the heart. This forum has escalated personal attacks of which I have never seen anywhere. I’m speaking with a very sad heart, not anger or any other emotion. You say I’m heartless for sharing there is a better way to move forward from hurt, with loving trust in our Lord, instead of the ruthless attacking I see here, then I’m sorry for you and others who choose to stay in controversy and bitterness. And I sadly assume,nothing will change that, Nothing. And I’m NOT referring to the issue with MD and scout. I believe the truths will be shown there shortly, and just pray that with the love of God, all will be sorted out with healing and moving on to use all 5his hurt to glorify His kingdom, not tear it down.

[OneOfMany]

I’m sorry Linda, but I spent three months reading and trying to understand this forum, before I ever shared, and still did not understand why some hold onto issues they say they had. Maybe it’s because I experienced several extremely hurtful situations, of which I have shared, and gave it to a God after trying to help those who hurt me.Most Christians that do experince hurtful situations in their life seek God and give it to Him to sort out. I can’t imagine living for God without giving hurtful issues to Him. Sure, we are not doormat’s, when we see something that’s hurtful we speak out, and then trust God-to deal with it. And He does, EVERY time, if you give it to Him from the heart. This forum has escalated personal attacks of which I have never seen anywhere. I’m speaking with a very sad heart, not anger or any other emotion. You say I’m heartless for sharing there is a better way to move forward from hurt, with loving trust in our Lord, instead of the ruthless attacking I see here, then I’m sorry for you and others who choose to stay in controversy and bitterness. And I sadly assume,nothing will change that, Nothing. And I’m NOT referring to the issue with MD and scout. I believe the truths will be shown there shortly, and just pray that with the love of God, all will be sorted out with healing and moving on to use all 5his hurt to glorify His kingdom, not tear it down.

God is handling what happened. Through the vehicle of public exposure. The leaders had years to do the right thing and change their ways. Now God is shining the light onto their darkness. Do you want everyone to remain silent so more people can be harmed by this group? To let their sin continue? If their sins did not harm others it might be ok to remain silent. But the number of victims keeps on increasing.

[Linda]

I’m sorry Linda, but I spent three months reading and trying to understand this forum, before I ever shared, and still did not understand why some hold onto issues they say they had. Maybe it’s because I experienced several extremely hurtful situations, of which I have shared, and gave it to a God after trying to help those who hurt me.Most Christians that do experince hurtful situations in their life seek God and give it to Him to sort out. I can’t imagine living for God without giving hurtful issues to Him. Sure, we are not doormat’s, when we see something that’s hurtful we speak out, and then trust God-to deal with it. And He does, EVERY time, if you give it to Him from the heart. This forum has escalated personal attacks of which I have never seen anywhere. I’m speaking with a very sad heart, not anger or any other emotion. You say I’m heartless for sharing there is a better way to move forward from hurt, with loving trust in our Lord, instead of the ruthless attacking I see here, then I’m sorry for you and others who choose to stay in controversy and bitterness. And I sadly assume,nothing will change that, Nothing. And I’m NOT referring to the issue with MD and scout. I believe the truths will be shown there shortly, and just pray that with the love of God, all will be sorted out with healing and moving on to use all 5his hurt to glorify His kingdom, not tear it down.

Read carefully. Don't try to escalate this. I did not say you were heartless. I said, "I choose to believe that you are unaware of these things because if you did know, you would be heartless to say what you just said." I don't believe you are heartless because I choose to believe that you are clueless about the damage done by this group for over 40 years.

They issued a statement of error and apology, but continue to teach and do the things they apologized for. People are harmed by this in many and varied ways.

You said, "I’m sorry Linda, but I spent three months reading and trying to understand this forum, before I ever shared, and still did not understand why some hold onto issues they say they had." We agree. That was my point. You do not know or understand what has happened to many in GCC churches over many years. Many have not told their stories publicly. You would be wise to pause and reflect on that before you post here.

As far as personal attacks, are you referring to Jeromy calling us "spiritual masturbators"? Or maybe threatening words like, "Jesus fashioned a whip to loudly and violently drive out the thieves defiling his father's house - I believe I have a Biblical precedent to forcefully defend my father the same way." Or, maybe the personal attack you were thinking about was the time Jeromy responded to my post stating what his father had actually said to my husband and I with, "Another fat stinking lie Linda." Or maybe when someone put my name as number 1 on an intimidation list of who to sue. Shall I go on? If those are those the personal attacks you are referring to? I am in hearty agreement.

Bottom line: Fellow believers have been harmed in big ways by this group for many years. I understand that some of you don't see or know the extent of the damage. Some is really bad. Depression and PTSD requiring hospitalization. Suicide attempts (I know of a few.) So, I am pushing back. I can't stop you from posting, but I will tell you that you are very unwise to continue criticism when you are so uninformed.

[Greentruth]

I understand what you went through, what I don’t understand is why you and others hold onto what you claim you went through. What church doesn’t want it’s members to commit. I would sign a commitment to Jesus Church wherever He led me. Some are led to other venues. To take it literally you can’t leave is short sited. ECC has saved hundreds, maybe thousands from destructive lives, even early deaths. I saw and was a part of that. That is my focus now, to reach out to the lost and hurting. Life and circumstances are what we make it. We each one of us have a choice, and to blame the consequences on anyone or anything is self destructive. To many, in or out of a Church, live as victims needlessly. I have been in situations where people have nothing, and have had loved ones raped and murdered that live in peace and joy knowing they will be reunited with loved ones in Gods Glory.  As far as this forum claiming to only expose is very disingenuous, as much of what has been posted is over the top trying to tear down, NOT just exposing for the purpose to inform. You use a few statements from Jeromy which I’m sure are out of context to justify the ruthless attacking going on now. You can manipulate my words again, but simple fact is I just wish and pray for the best for everyone. What goes on at this forum is not helping anyone

[Linda]

I understand what you went through, what I don’t understand is why you and others hold onto what you claim you went through. What church doesn’t want it’s members to commit. I would sign a commitment to Jesus Church wherever He led me. Some are led to other venues. To take it literally you can’t leave is short sited. ECC has saved hundreds, maybe thousands from destructive lives, even early deaths. I saw and was a part of that. That is my focus now, to reach out to the lost and hurting. Life and circumstances are what we make it. We each one of us have a choice, and to blame the consequences on anyone or anything is self destructive. To many, in or out of a Church, live as victims needlessly. I have been in situations where people have nothing, and have had loved ones raped and murdered that live in peace and joy knowing they will be reunited with loved ones in Gods Glory.  As far as this forum claiming to only expose is very disingenuous, as much of what has been posted is over the top trying to tear down, NOT just exposing for the purpose to inform. You use a few statements from Jeromy which I’m sure are out of context to justify the ruthless attacking going on now. You can manipulate my words again, but simple fact is I just wish and pray for the best for everyone. What goes on at this forum is not helping anyone

I am not a victim, nor am I living as a victim.

I am here to warn people about some pretty significant error in the teaching of GCC churches.

This teaching damages and has damaged people in many ways. Some of those ways are life changing and horrifying. You clearly are clueless about what I am talking about and what many here know about and/or have experienced.

If you truly cared about wishing the best for everyone, you might consider stepping back from your defense of GCC and your attacks on this forum. You might consider that this forum is not for you because you clearly do not have a problem with GCC teaching. You might consider that you are being rude and thoughtless every time you persist and judge the motives of people when you clearly have no understanding of the depth of damage that has been done to many over the years..

You are not the judge of whether or not anyone is being helped by this forum.

[OneOfMany]

I understand what you went through, what I don’t understand is why you and others hold onto what you claim you went through. What church doesn’t want it’s members to commit. I would sign a commitment to Jesus Church wherever He led me. Some are led to other venues. To take it literally you can’t leave is short sited. ECC has saved hundreds, maybe thousands from destructive lives, even early deaths. I saw and was a part of that. That is my focus now, to reach out to the lost and hurting. Life and circumstances are what we make it. We each one of us have a choice, and to blame the consequences on anyone or anything is self destructive. To many, in or out of a Church, live as victims needlessly. I have been in situations where people have nothing, and have had loved ones raped and murdered that live in peace and joy knowing they will be reunited with loved ones in Gods Glory.  As far as this forum claiming to only expose is very disingenuous, as much of what has been posted is over the top trying to tear down, NOT just exposing for the purpose to inform. You use a few statements from Jeromy which I’m sure are out of context to justify the ruthless attacking going on now. You can manipulate my words again, but simple fact is I just wish and pray for the best for everyone. What goes on at this forum is not helping anyone

You keep saying that you understand when clearly you do not. You keep testifying on Evergreens behalf when you never attended this church. You keep saying you want the best for everyone yet you come here judging others and spewing ugly words. Please stop!!

This forum is a place for those of us who have suffered life altering damage by being members of GCM churches to find help and healing. And we warn those who find this forum so they do not attend a GCM church and suffer as we have. You were never a member of a GCM church. So please stop coming here to defend GCM and to attack those of us are or have been member. You don't know what it is like to be a member.

[Fireball]

I am a member and am doing just fine. No brainwashing, or mind controlling happening.

[OneOfMany]

I am a member and am doing just fine. No brainwashing, or mind controlling happening.

I would have said that when I was a member. Mind control does not work if people realize that it is happening to them.

[Fireball]

 i am sorry but your wrong. What universe do you live in?

[OneOfMany]

Fireball I will think of a response. Meanwhile: In order to see what is really going on separation helps. Take a two month leave from the church. While on leave watch videos and other resources that explain what mind control is and how spiritual abuse happens. Learn how groups can be manipulated from stage during worship. Learn about shepherding and other control groups, what makes them controlling. Take time to be still and to learn.

Or don't take a leave. But watch videos that explain how modern church services use group hypnotic techniques to control the audience. Then go to church and watch for those techniques to be used in the service. You can go to YouTube and google this.

When I went to evergreen I would have said NO WAY to anyone who suggested i was being manipulated or controlled. But that is the nature of being controlled. You don't realize that this is what is going on.

[Linda]

I am a member and am doing just fine. No brainwashing, or mind controlling happening.

Fallacy of composition.

Perfect example. The error of assuming that something that is true for a part of the group is true for the group as a whole.

[Huldah]

I am a member and am doing just fine. No brainwashing, or mind controlling happening.

Assuming that's true in your own case, it doesn't mean that everyone there is doing just fine.

I was very quick to defend my own GC church when I was there. Even when I began to see the cracks in the facade, I wrote them off as normal human imperfection--and perhaps some of them were, but others were much worse than I realized. Since the critics were all outsiders, I automatically dismissed their opinions as either spiritual immaturity (if they were members of churches that weren't "God's best," as we referred to ourselves) or as enemies of the gospel (as indeed some of them were, but that doesn't mean that their specific criticism of my church was wrong). I kept defending my leaders no matter what, until I could no longer defend them to myself. That's when I left.

[Greentruth]

Oneoffew,  I attended an ECC Church for over 20 years. Never saw anything such has been claimed here. You make horrendous accusations and then say your on the high road. That on itself is disturbing. I was not addressing you. You want to do what’s good and helpful? Try thinking building up, instead of who or what you can tear down

[Linda]

Oneoffew,  I attended an ECC Church for over 20 years. Never saw anything such has been claimed here.

Fallacy of composition.

[Greentruth]

Linda, didn’t say YOU where a victim, Only an enabler.