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Author Topic: REVISITING McCotter HISTORY: Opening A Blind Eye  (Read 20497 times)
PietWowo
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« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2020, 10:08:34 pm »

These are all terrible terrible lies.  It's such a shame that you are reviling and slandering a wonderful brother in the Lord.  If you want to talk to Jim direct, why don't you come online and watch his show.  He's on every weekday at 4pm on facebook @jimmccotterlive

Stop the terrible accusations.  If you have a question or want to talk to Jim, why not just contact him directly on facebook!

By the way, I have never told a lie on this forum. Ever. If you are accusing me of lying, you are slandering me (technically since it is written it is libel). Pointing out bad theology is not slander.

If you start talking about legal matters.... good verses bad theology would probably be considered a different religious viewpoint....

Now, I can point out to someone that their interpretation of a passage is hermeneutically not correct, but that wouldn't be considered a legal issue in the USA, I would say... Now, of course some day, you'll have to appear before God on that....

Having said that, I don't remember of hand, any bad theology that you have written, not that I have read everything you wrote.... But I'm not aware of any...
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Linda
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« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2020, 08:58:56 am »

Pietwowo,

My comment was addressed to Vince who accused posters on this forum of telling lies. Calling someone who didn’t lie “a liar” is a pretty big deal. Over the years we have been called slanderers repeatedly. It seems to be the GCC way that goes back to the McCotter days. We have been insulted and called liars by GCC church employees (read the Jeromy Darling insults). It’s telling to me that GCC defenders rarely discuss ideas in their challenges, but rather resort to gaslighting (calling us crazy) and ad hominem (calling us liars). Their treatment of fellow believers speaks for itself. Ironically and sadly, the only slander I have read on this forum has come from GCC defenders.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2020, 10:46:41 am »

Pietwowo,

My comment was addressed to Vince who accused posters on this forum of telling lies. Calling someone who didn’t lie “a liar” is a pretty big deal. Over the years we have been called slanderers repeatedly. It seems to be the GCC way that goes back to the McCotter days. We have been insulted and called liars by GCC church employees (read the Jeromy Darling insults). It’s telling to me that GCC defenders rarely discuss ideas in their challenges, but rather resort to gaslighting (calling us crazy) and ad hominem (calling us liars). Their treatment of fellow believers speaks for itself. Ironically and sadly, the only slander I have read on this forum has come from GCC defenders.

The only thing with the Mark Darling situation is that I haven't seen any proof... Part of the problem there is that they want to protect the confidentiality of the "victims..."  I guess I understand that. But at the same time I believe a person is innocent until proven guilty. We don't need to discuss this particular situation anymore.... I'm replying to you mentioning Jeromy Darling.

I don't know if everyone, who tells something that is not true can be called a "liar...."  Otherwise every student during their exam, who makes a mistake would be considered a liar.... I define a liar as someone, who purposely while knowing it is untrue, speaks something as a fact, while they know it is not a fact.

However what I have seen on this forum a lot is people just jumping to a conclusion without knowing both sides. Generally it's whatever is anti-GCx. They immediately default to being anti-GCx.... That happens in politics too.... I think believers need to have a wiser approach to things.... We shouldn't believe something just because it is written somewhere on the internet. And it is again generally negative things. They don't seem to recognize the many wonderful things that GCx has done too.

I caution people to not spread negative information about others, regardless if it is about GCx or any other organization or person without first verifying things...And even then be very careful to even evaluate whether it even needs to be shared....
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Linda
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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2020, 11:22:31 am »

Quote from: pietwowo
I caution people to not spread negative information about others, regardless if it is about GCx or any other organization or person without first verifying things...And even then be very careful to even evaluate whether it even needs to be shared....

If I understand, what you are saying is that Vince should have been very careful to not spread negative information about others (you know, publicly calling people liars and slanderers, etc.) without verifying things first. That makes good sense. I'm glad we see eye to eye on this.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #44 on: December 28, 2020, 04:06:11 pm »

Quote from: pietwowo
I caution people to not spread negative information about others, regardless if it is about GCx or any other organization or person without first verifying things...And even then be very careful to even evaluate whether it even needs to be shared....

If I understand, what you are saying is that Vince should have been very careful to not spread negative information about others (you know, publicly calling people liars and slanderers, etc.) without verifying things first. That makes good sense. I'm glad we see eye to eye on this.

I would say both ways.... And then also there is a principle in the Jewish culture to always speak the best on the other person.... not to do Lashon HaRa (evil tongue).... It's different than slander.... Slander would be saying a negative lie about someone, like he is having an affair with his secretary, when it's not true.... Lashon HaRa would be saying the truth, but putting another person in a negative light. Sort of like negative gossip. Psalm 34:12, 13 and quoted again in I Peter. 3:10.... So, all of us need to be careful with that.  Another principle in the Hebrew culture is to give people the benefit of the doubt.... Not to jump to conclusion, especially not negative ones. Many times we can be very wrong with a wrong conclusion. When in reality, if we knew the whole truth, we would maybe have mercy on that person...
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Linda
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« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2020, 08:52:45 pm »

How does one define putting someone in a negative light? If the definition of putting someone in a negative light means you never correct bad teaching or point out theological error because it might come off as negative, then people will be misled.

Over the years, GCC defenders have been pretty aggressive in attacking people and not challenging their ideas. The hypocrisy is obvious.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2020, 07:10:05 pm »

How does one define putting someone in a negative light? If the definition of putting someone in a negative light means you never correct bad teaching or point out theological error because it might come off as negative, then people will be misled.

Over the years, GCC defenders have been pretty aggressive in attacking people and not challenging their ideas. The hypocrisy is obvious.

That's a great question.... I would say that one has to stand up for the Truth of the Scriptures, first and foremost of all. Then if one has to warn others, it would be best to first approach the person in private and if the person doesn't want to acknowledge their wrong when it is clear to the group, then bring it with proof to the "community." I'm suggesting something similar to Matt. 18 here.

When you say: "Not challenging their ideas." Who is "their"?  Is that referring to GCC defenders or GCC accusers... (for lack of a better word).

GCx has always been very strong on when someone reproves someone else that the other person should really listen.... It's always been a big emphasis. Now are you saying that they themselves didn't do that?
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2021, 02:58:23 pm »


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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2021, 07:06:06 pm »

God’s Response to False Teachers


‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least
of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Matthew 25:40


It seems God clearly expresses his anger toward the False Prophets & Teachers in the Old Testament. I couldn’t help but think of GCx’s 50 Year Jubilee Video as I read these chapters in Hosea this morning. The homage they paid to McCotter was sickening. The lack of remorse for their injury to countless believers was disheartening to say the least.

Would Christian Missionary Alliance pay homage to Ravi Zacharias with several pictures in their next anniversary? Certainly not. They have admirably and properly revoked his position in their history.

Therefore, I believe the following words from God through the prophet Hosea apply to unrepentant McCotter and “GCx” leadership:    (Bold emphasis and italics mine)


Do not rejoice, O Israel; do not be jubilant...
For you have been unfaithful to your God...             (Hosea 9:1)

Because your sins are so many and your hostility is so great,
the prophet is considered a fool,
the inspired man a maniac...            (Hosea 9:7)

They have sunk deep into corruption...            (Hosea 9:9)

all their leaders are rebellious...            (Hosea 9:15)

...and so will it’s idolatrous priests,
those who had rejoiced over its splendor...            (Hosea 10:5)

Sow for yourselves righteousness,
reap the fruit of unfailing love,
and break up your hard ground;
for its time to seek the LORD...
           (Hosea 10:12)


But you have planted wickedness...
you have eaten the fruit of deception.
Because you have depended on your own strength
and on your many warriors
...

Ephraim has surrounded Me with lies,
the house of Israel with deceit.
And Judah is unruly against God,
even against the faithful Holy One.            (Hosea 11:12)




Will the people in this scenario say, “When did we lie to you and deceive you, O King?”
                                                                         “When were we corrupt toward you?”
                                                                         “When did we oppress you?”
                                                                         “When were we jubilant over what was idolatrous?”

Then the King might reply, “When you did it to one of the least of these brothers of Mine.”




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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2021, 01:43:52 pm »

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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2021, 11:47:19 am »


Deception and Fabrication


I remember hearing tall tales with less than half-truths from McCotter that left impressions of grand activity. Sleeping with a knife under his pillow (as if he were under violent persecution). Meeting with important Christian leaders who asked how he got most of his group to participate so devotedly. Later, I realized they were probably trying to learn more about his controlling methods and investigate this aberrant Christian leader.

Anyhow here is another grand story reporting back on traveling “around the world” to meet a famous theologian in a foreign country (from “Marching to Zion”). References to audience reaction in brackets are from Mike Royal’s retelling the story later.



... After Jim had traveled around the world with Henry and Rick and Dennis he was back in Ames, and he was giving us a report of that trip. He mentioned how he had met with this very famous theologian in Switzerland and told him about God's will for your life, and how excited this theologian was about what he was sharing. Does anybody come to your mind [laughter] when I say that? Who would ever guess? Well, I went up (y'know, I was really excited) right after the meeting. I ran up and I said, “Jim, did you meet with Francis Schaeffer in Switzerland?”

   How'd Jim answer this? “No, no. What gave you that impression?”

   “Well,” I said, “I only know of one famous theologian in Switzerland.” [Laughter]

   And he says, “No, I didn't meet with him.”

   And he was willing to stop this conversation there, but I pressed him. I said, “Well, Jim, I'm curious. Who did you meet with over there?”

   “Earle Fries from Chicago.” [Laughter in the audience]

   He had pre-arranged to meet Earle in Switzerland, and I dare tell you, I would suggest that he specifically had Switzerland as the place to meet with Earle so he could tell that story when he got back. [Laughter] At any rate, this is the way Jim fabricates, and deceives, and he's really, really adept at it.
- Mike Royal



It makes me laugh that McCotter claimed a “very famous” theologian (who would be educated and trained in scripture) was excited about his biblically shallow, historically inaccurate, and strategically deceptive concept of “God’s Will For Your Life”. If it resembled anything like his conferences teaching such or his spiritual gifts conference we had here on video it would make me wonder about the theologian or the truth of his claim.



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For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2021, 01:24:37 pm »

I've heard Jim tell the story about the Europe trip just recently because he's giving his testimony from childhood on up on Thursdays on Jim McCotter Live youtube channel, as well as his facebook page.  He never mentioned this.  I don't believe this is an honest story.  Either way, why not come on line and confront him about this to his face?  He'd love to speak to anyone who has something to discuss.    Let's get this all out in the open once and for all.  Maybe Mike could name some others who heard this story?  I'm not saying it didn't happen, and I'm also definitely not saying I would have come to the same conclusions as Mike Royal, but wouldn't it be nice to get all this behind us once and for all? 
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Huldah
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« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2021, 06:22:53 pm »

If any forum readers plan to take Vince up on his invitation, I recommend taking a look at the McCotter Poison thread first, http://forum.gcmwarning.com/jim-mccotter-gc-history/mccotter-poison/. There's a lot to ask McCotter about!

Also consider this: if Jim McCotter denies all the accusations, how will you know whether to believe him or not? Why are so many people, including a number of Christians who truly love the Lord, seemingly invested in maliciously undermining him, when he was only ever a very minor player on the evangelical stage? Those are questions worth pondering.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2021, 01:36:09 pm »

Jim has been sharing his positions on multiple issues 5 times per week and 1 hour at a time for 8 months.  If there is ANY issue where he hasn't made his position clear (and I don't personally agree with some things he's very convinced of), then you can ask him directly!  I produce this show and I can tell you I will put you on the show without knowing who you are and what you plan to say.  I do this all the time and it makes things very entertaining!  I hope some will come on to discuss these things! 
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Huldah
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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2021, 02:52:51 pm »

These constant posts badgering us to come on Jim's show remind me of the kind of guy who keeps pestering a girl for a date even after she's made it clear she's not interested. It has crossed the line from pathetic to creepy and stalkerish.
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Vince Capobianco
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« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2021, 02:08:00 pm »

You are so mean.  I understand.  I'm not interested in being accused of being a stalker.  I'm not. Just pleading with God's people to try to be reconciled for the sake of the Kingdom.  If you or anyone on here wants to contact me, you have my email.  Blessings.
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2021, 09:30:00 pm »

Paul did not seek to reconcile with False Teachers, but instead warns us to flee from them. Perhaps some are not aware of the biblical descriptions of False Teachers: their methods, their guise, and their goal. Their primary method is to initially make you feel very important by contrived flattery. Their guise unfortunately is scripture and spiritual talk of Jesus. They may even have been a member among you in your church who now seeks leadership with claims of superior methods of obeying God and living more righteously. They distort the Word of God in order to manipulate you to action for their plan, not God’s. Taking advantage our young uneducated faith by appealing to our insecurity they promise securing our rewards in heaven by following them.

They twist scripture to instill false fear in you. They may use fear of lost reward and a wasted life if we don’t follow their superior approach to following Christ. To a young believer this is very scary to leave such large claims of seeming “Christian authority.” How abusive! Their goal is to divide you from others in the body of Christ to keep you in isolation (which they often label “higher righteousness”) for themselves. They need you and your submission to build a following, for monetary gain, and to make a name for themselves. They want to be glorified rather than Christ. In essence they separate you from healthy Christianity by claiming superior spirituality and use sinful division through perverting the Bible and how to live out the gospel.

Here are some verses that help us see the False Teacher’s biblical narrative.


Those people are zealous for you, but not in a good way.
Instead, they want to isolate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them.

Galatians 4:17


Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles
that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites.
By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

Romans 16:17-18


I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you
and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number, men will rise up
and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them.

Acts 20:29


Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing,
but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7:15



Fascinatingly, this well-known passage below about a tree and its fruit is actually pointedly addressing the fruit of False Prophets or False “Teachers”. Look at the previous verse above: “Beware of False Prophets.” False Teachers produce thorns and thistles which regularly wound the believer and entrap them in isolation. Sound familiar? God is emploring us to look at the fruit of what a “Teacher” of God produces. What are the results of his teaching, his influence? This IS HOW YOU RECOGNIZE a False Teacher!!


Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?  Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Matthew 7:16-20



There is no biblical reason to have any further discussion with a False Teacher. There is already evidence that his teaching and his words are distorted and untrustworthy. If he has been informed of the error of his teaching many times and depravedly twists blame upon the actual seekers of God’s Truth there is NO POINT in discussing the matter further. God instructs us to have nothing to do with them.



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Huldah
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« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2021, 06:18:27 am »

Vince, you don't seem at all interested in reconciliation. From the time you first came here, you've called us liars without ever pointing out any lies even when asked. If you recall, you said some pretty harsh things to me in one of your PMs, and you told another member here that you hope McCotter sues her. It's a little too late to start pretending you're here in good faith seeking peace and love. What you're demanding isn't reconciliation, but submission and silence.

If this is McCotter's influence on you, then it appears that his influence has been most unfortunate.  Since meeting McCotter, have you truly felt any freedom and joy in the Lord? Or has your life begun to center around McCotter's needs and McCotter's reputation, to the exclusion of your time with Christ? Don't forget that most of us who are posting here were once just as enthusiastic about McCotter and/or his church as you are now. We supported the Blitz/GC against all accusers, and devoted our energy to promoting it whenever we could. We pushed ourselves to keep going in spite of all the red flags, until finally the red flags reached such a critical mass that our eyes were opened.


Quote
I'm not interested in being accused of being a stalker.  I'm not.

Then why keep acting like a stalker? You do come across as being desperate. Why come back week after week, month after month, badgering three women who are unknown outside of this forum, and trying to compel our submission to your demands? Do you truly not see how unhealthy and downright bizarre your obsession is?
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Janet Easson Martin
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« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2021, 08:10:12 am »


If you recall, you said some pretty harsh things to me in one of your PMs, and you told another member here that you hope McCotter sues her. It's a little too late to start pretending you're here in good faith seeking peace and love. What you're demanding isn't reconciliation, but submission and silence.
-Huldah



Yes, that is accurate. He said to me about McCotter, ‘I hope he sues the delights out of you’, in a post that he has apparently since removed  It very much seems his primary intention is to silence our exposure of McCotter’s character and history.


Don't forget that most of us who are posting here were once just as enthusiastic about McCotter and/or his church as you are now. We supported the Blitz/GC against all accusers, and devoted our energy to promoting it whenever we could. We pushed ourselves to keep going in spite of all the red flags, until finally the red flags reached such a critical mass that our eyes were opened.
-Huldah




« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 08:46:49 am by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2021, 07:21:22 pm »


It’s Good To Be Wary



Joe Navarro, a former FBI Counterintelligence Agent, authors an interesting short article titled, “Dangerous Cult Leaders” on the Psychology Today Site. He lists 45 or so characterististics to be wary of in “leaders.” Those that he lists are worth consideration for others’ and our own well-being. Following are some from the top of his list that seem familiar.

  • He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.
  • Demands blind, unquestioned obedience.
  • Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.
  • Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.
  • Is frequently boastful of accomplishments.
  • Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others; communication is usually one-way, in the form of dictates.
  • Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.
  • When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.
  • Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.”
  • Is superficially charming.
  • Is constantly assessing people to determine those who are a threat or those who revere him.


Here is the link to the article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders


« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 07:55:10 pm by Janet Easson Martin » Logged

For grace is given not because we have done good works, but in order that we may be able to do them.        - Saint Augustine
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