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Author Topic: Findings of Investigation Made Public  (Read 44397 times)
KnowingGod
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2018, 12:12:00 pm »

Hey phonex thanks for your imput.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2018, 12:13:20 pm »

I listened to as much of the BK sermon as I could stomach, and tuned out when he compared it to football.  Because yes, it's just like football.  Football is as serious as sexual harassment allegations.  Give me a break.  I had to shut it off, it was too upsetting and I, as a former member, don't need to be a part of it anymore. 

Go listen to Bloomington message from this last weekend (6/3) and you'll really want to hurl.
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Badger
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« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2018, 12:47:12 pm »

I listened to as much of the BK sermon as I could stomach, and tuned out when he compared it to football.  Because yes, it's just like football.  Football is as serious as sexual harassment allegations.  Give me a break.  I had to shut it off, it was too upsetting and I, as a former member, don't need to be a part of it anymore. 

Go listen to Bloomington message from this last weekend (6/3) and you'll really want to hurl.

Thanks for the tip Phoenix.

I find it interesting that Spencer Bernard talks about hiring a competent investigator and needing facts so they can then decide how to proceed regarding the allegations... RIGHT BEFORE SAYING, "What does scripture say when criticism is not fair."

He also once again presents the idea that Mark and Brent co-founded Evergreen Church.  That he has worked with Brent for 15 years.  And, it was Brent's idea to change the sermon series to discuss unfair criticism just weeks ago.  Because it is always good to control information and tell people in your group what to think.  When you're an abusive group...
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Watching
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2018, 01:21:53 pm »

An announcement was posted in New Hope's weekly e-mail regarding the investigation.  Here it is:

Investigation Update
The investigation has been completed. The investigator’s report has been delivered to the Board of Trustees. The Board has reserved several dates in June to meet to review the report and determine next steps. They will report to the congregation upon completion of that process. Once again, we ask for your patience during this time. We also ask for your prayers for the Board as they seek the Lord for wisdom and discernment.
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Huldah
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2018, 02:46:31 pm »

Watching, thank you for posting the update.

I listened to the first few minutes of the linked sermon, more than once. One thing that struck me as odd is the way he kept using phrases like "unjustly accused" or "what happened to Mark Darling (has) been unfair," but he never actually comes right out and says that Mark was "falsely accused."

"Unjust" could mean "true, but with mitigating circumstances," so it seems a little strange that the speaker never uses a non-ambiguous word like false or untrue. (Edit to clarify: it gives the impression that they know the accusations are true after all, so "unfair" is the best defense they can come up with.) But maybe I'm reading too much into it.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 04:22:47 pm by Huldah » Logged
DarthVader
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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2018, 03:42:33 pm »

    I want to reiterate the importance of Evergreen Board of Trustees making the findings of Joan Harris' investigation public.

  • Transparency of results acts as accountability for those on the EC BOT making decisions about Mark Darling and those who have been involved in ongoing cover up for him. This is not to suggest that the BOT is unethical or dishonest but they have been placed in a position where for some they are deciding the fate of one of their employers and a friend.
  • I, on behalf of myself and the other victims, have asked for the findings to be made public as we have nothing to hide.
  • Joan Harris said she has asked the EC BOT several times to make the findings public as it will help in their credibility.  At the time I spoke with her about this, she said they would not.
  • The findings could be released to the public and be done in a way to protect the identities of the victims, according to the BOT's attorney, Joan Harris.
  • Joan Harris informed me that 2 documents were turned into her that support that the pastors were made aware of Mark's abuse of me 17ish years ago and another that Evergreen Church (not GCM/GCC) sent us an email offering us 50K if we would not speak ill or disparagingly of Evergreen and Mark Darling.  Since stating that publicly, some of Mark's supporters have said that I invented those documents and handed them into Joan myself.  If the report is made public, it would show that these two documents are in existence and not turned in by me.

Evergreen Board of Trustees, once again, I ask that Joan Harris' findings be made public, with the only redaction and omissions being ones to protect the victim's identities.  My hope is the report is published in its entirety.

scout[/list]
Let me start by saying I agree completely with the hope and desire to see all findings made public & no victim should do or say anything she is not comfortable with.

That being said, I think it would help in that cause of encouraging ECC to be fully transparent if at least the two other victims whose names are already public, Natalie & Loey, would join Suzanne publicly in making that request, and, of course, if any other victims who have also spoken with Joan chose to come forward to support that request, it would only help.

I could imagine ECC arguing that Suzanne does NOT speak for all the victims & they may not wish even a redacted version of their conversation with Joan Harris to be made public.  Because Suzanne led the way with her initial twitter post, and because of the Van Dyck's long history with ECC, she has become a bit of a focal point of negative commentary from MD defenders who tend to (mostly) ignore the other victims in their attacks.  This has been good in a sense, in that it has probably deflected a lot of negativity & attacks from the other victims, but now that the investigation is over, and we are all seeking transparency, to have as many voices as possible of those who were most impacted calling for a full release of the report would be a powerful thing - but again - I'm only saying what I think might help - and no victim should ever say or do anything she is not comfortable with -  Seeing how this has played out at Willow Creek, having many voices (Ortberg, Dyer, etc.) has been a dynamic that has had a positive impact, even if it has not yet led to full transparency.
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Barb
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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 04:03:06 pm »

I have listened to both Brent’s message from two weeks ago at the Rock and Spencer’s  message from last Sunday at Bloomington. There are two things that disturb me about both of those messages. The first is that both men repeated call the accusations against Mark “ unfair” or “unjust” while not once entertaining the thought that the alleged victims may be speaking the truth. The second very disturbing aspect of this is that most undoubtedly, at least some of the BOT members are sitting in the auditorium during those messages.

For all intents and purposes, it appears that they are laying the groundwork for making a “martyr” out of Mark and those accused.
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searching
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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 04:54:32 pm »

I'm sorry, but these men have no integrity. I have prayed that at least one of the pastors(several of which do believe at least one of the victims) would have the courage to stand up for what is right and true. Yes, they have everything to lose, but oh so much more to gain.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 06:45:04 pm »

Maybe this is what "loyalty" to the band of brothers looks like and planting your flag till you die.

See why those teachings might end up being bad?

One of my beliefs in why religion and parenting can become abusive is that sometimes people stop seeing the reality and testimony in front of them, and they can only see what "should be" in their mind's eye.  

They want loyalty to the death.  And to do so means that you can never fully look at what is before you, clearly, transparently, without any hiding.


Open your eyes, people, and look.  Maybe it won't be so bad, maybe it will.  But unless those leaders know something we don't, saying something is unfair before the investigation is complete means they aren't looking fairly at the allegations.  They've got a picture in their minds, and no amount of evidence will sway.  

« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 07:06:03 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

Glad to be free.
OneOfMany
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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 07:38:11 pm »

So it appears that our worst fears are realized. This "Church" is founded upon principles that make it impossible for the leaders to act with integrity.  People who love power often use the "church" to achieve their personal goals of being in control of other people, feeling powerful and being important. As I said before being a leader of a church is one of the top 10 professions for people whose driving force in life is power. God is not a part of their life, only a means to their end of being self important. In recent church sermons leaders are using methods of mind control to prepare those whom they can to accept the story they give them on the results of the investigation. Results that will not be released only reported upon. They can say any darn thing they want and those trapped in the manipulation will believe what they are told.

I want to fight back. I want to write these so called pastors and tell them clearly how evil their ways are and that many are not deceived, and we will not be silenced. Personally I do want to see them leave the pulpit. Let them feed their egos by becoming politicians but to use God to do so is reprehensible. I am boiling angry at the moment. HOW DARE THEY!! Maybe we need stand outside the services and hand out leaflets to the poor souls walking inside. Maybe we need to pool our time and resources together and mail out the truth to those who are members. I want to do something, anything, to stop these evil men from deceiving more people. After the recent sermons I no longer want to hear them apologize or repent. I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 08:10:58 pm »

I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.

Do you know any of them? 
Really, I'm asking what your connection is.  (I'm sure you have addressed this elsewhere but I have not seen it.)
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2018, 07:36:18 am »

One of Many,

I understand your angst and anger about some of Evergreen pastor's sermons and stance on the Mark Darling issue.

You said, "leaders are using methods of mind control." I may be giving them the benefit of the doubt here, but I think they have functioned from the beginning of their ministry from the ultra-authoritarian view point, and I don't think they realize what they are doing. I think they are sincere, and sincerely wrong about their interpretation of Scripture when it comes  to the role of the pastor. I think they are believer who have gone down the wrong path and they are blind to what they are doing. I honestly think they think they are helping people. And honoring God. They may have a twinge of conscience now and then, but quickly justify what they are doing and saying. I think that it will take their little kingdom they have built to start crumbling for them to admit to themselves that perhaps something is wrong. At this point I think most of the pastors at Evergreen are desperately trying to hang on to their glory days, their faithful followers, control and authority, and their "good name."

I have said this many times, but I believe that it takes getting out to see a lot of what is messed up in that church.

I don't believe that handing out leaflets or sending angry emails or letters will help. Praying for them, yes. And praying that the people in that church will start to see. They have to want to get out. And it is scary, when that is your circle of friends. I honestly don't know how we would have extricated ourselves, except that we were told to leave and find another church. That was a shock to us but somehow we knew that it was God who was leading us out and that He would be Faithful. He is and was.
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OneOfMany
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2018, 07:49:44 am »

So it appears that our worst fears are realized. This "Church" is founded upon principles that make it impossible for the leaders to act with integrity.  People who love power often use the "church" to achieve their personal goals of being in control of other people, feeling powerful and being important. As I said before being a leader of a church is one of the top 10 professions for people whose driving force in life is power. God is not a part of their life, only a means to their end of being self important. In recent church sermons leaders are using methods of mind control to prepare those whom they can to accept the story they give them on the results of the investigation. Results that will not be released only reported upon. They can say any darn thing they want and those trapped in the manipulation will believe what they are told.

I want to fight back. I want to write these so called pastors and tell them clearly how evil their ways are and that many are not deceived, and we will not be silenced. Personally I do want to see them leave the pulpit. Let them feed their egos by becoming politicians but to use God to do so is reprehensible. I am boiling angry at the moment. HOW DARE THEY!! Maybe we need stand outside the services and hand out leaflets to the poor souls walking inside. Maybe we need to pool our time and resources together and mail out the truth to those who are members. I want to do something, anything, to stop these evil men from deceiving more people. After the recent sermons I no longer want to hear them apologize or repent. I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.


I was overcome with anger and disappointment. Personally I hope that they are misled. I doubt it. The information is out there, all over the internet how modern churches use group hypnotic techniques for an "experience" of God that is in reality not God but a natural emotional response from our brains as a result of certain types of stimuli. But then - I used to believe this was a Godly experience and even used those things in bible studies not realizing what I was doing. So yes, they could be misled. Absolutely. I hope so. Again I was angry. Rather than delete what I wrote I will leave it there because maybe it will be helpful in some ways. In the end God is the one who has the power here. Not leaflets. Not emails. God reveals himself and his truth. So prayer is indeed the answer for the leaders and for those who have believed what they were told.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2018, 08:49:37 am »

One of Many,

I understand your angst and anger about some of Evergreen pastor's sermons and stance on the Mark Darling issue.

You said, "leaders are using methods of mind control." I may be giving them the benefit of the doubt here, but I think they have functioned from the beginning of their ministry from the ultra-authoritarian view point, and I don't think they realize what they are doing. I think they are sincere, and sincerely wrong about their interpretation of Scripture when it comes  to the role of the pastor. I think they are believer who have gone down the wrong path and they are blind to what they are doing. I honestly think they think they are helping people. And honoring God. They may have a twinge of conscience now and then, but quickly justify what they are doing and saying. I think that it will take their little kingdom they have built to start crumbling for them to admit to themselves that perhaps something is wrong. At this point I think most of the pastors at Evergreen are desperately trying to hang on to their glory days, their faithful followers, control and authority, and their "good name."

I have said this many times, but I believe that it takes getting out to see a lot of what is messed up in that church.


Well said.

However, I'm still in the church but my eyes are open. 
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2018, 09:31:36 am »

Phoenix,

I am so glad to hear you say that your eyes are open. I appreciate your contribution on this forum and will be very interested in hearing your thoughts as the drama unfolds.

Doesn't the phoenix rise out of the ashes, something like that? I am not real up on mythology.  Smiley

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Badger
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« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2018, 10:48:58 am »

Some pastors when confronted with valid questions and accusations regarding their abusive leadership double-down, maintaining their innocence and god-given-right to such actions.  Such men (and sometimes women) leave their churches when they are up against the wall and later rebuild similar followings.  This happens in churches and cults alike.

I saw this at a church I once attended.  The BOT followed legal advice to limit public admission of financial abuse while releasing the entire report of spiritual abuse.  They did not allow the state to press charges despite the lead pastor destroying the books and troubling forensic audit results.  The lead pastor, implicated leaders, and supporters then said the investigation was inherently unfair and threatened to sue the church.  Only one staff member voluntarily sought full reconciliatory actions.  The lead pastor moved where he attempted to start another "ministry."

I think this is perhaps more the rule then the exception.
We have seen leaders like Bill Hybels, Jim McCotter, and Mark Driscoll use this playbook. Jesus called out corrupt church leaders in his day and such corruption continues to this day.  I therefore have very little hope that Evergreen and its leadership will break the mold.  I am hopeful they will surprise me but extremely doubtful they will.
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Mango
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« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2018, 10:52:59 am »

Impressive thread. I feel God's love moving in this group.

Oneofmany
“I want to do something, anything, to stop these evil men from deceiving more people. After the recent sermons I no longer want to hear them apologize or repent. I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.”

Searching
“I'm sorry, but these men have no integrity.”

GodisFaithful
“At this point I think most of the pastors at Evergreen are desperately trying to hang on to their glory days, their faithful followers, control and authority, and their "good name."’
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Badger
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« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2018, 11:44:24 am »

I personally don't see the love of God expressed in leaders that cover up abuse for decades.  I don't see agape love, selfless love, when leaders dig their heels in because they need to protect their position and power.  Such continuous conscious efforts to suppress victims and abuse makes me question the godliness and righteousness these leaders purport.

I would agree with Oneofmany, Evergreen's actions over the last 6 months have been more self-serving and protective than self-sacrificial love that Jesus demonstrated.  Their actions over the last two decades have been more self-serving and protective than self-sacrificial in regards to the recent witness statements.  In the two sermons, mentioned above, there was a need to protect position and power and not the weak and the hurt.  Both messages used a faulty hermeneutical approach that sought to justify their current authority structures, viewpoints, and actions.

I find it troubling that "love" has to always be nice or complementary.  It perhaps would be more loving if churches held their leaders accountable for the hurtful actions.  Abusive leaders would then stop abusing and perhaps they too would repent.  Keep in mind, if leaders would have "loved" in this way 20 years ago when Suzanne first came to them perhaps we wouldn't have victims c,d,e...

 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 11:55:06 am by Badger » Logged
G_Prince
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« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2018, 12:14:28 pm »

Impressive thread. I feel God's love moving in this group.

Oneofmany
“I want to do something, anything, to stop these evil men from deceiving more people. After the recent sermons I no longer want to hear them apologize or repent. I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.”

Searching
“I'm sorry, but these men have no integrity.”

GodisFaithful
“At this point I think most of the pastors at Evergreen are desperately trying to hang on to their glory days, their faithful followers, control and authority, and their "good name."’


More like the TRUTH of God.  Wink
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
searching
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« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2018, 12:41:00 pm »



I do not believe that Brent’s words/actions are one of a man with integrity. And no, you will not find a lot of love here from me. I was involved at ECC for far too long and somewhat in “the inner circle”. I will bet my life that the BOT is not the ones making the decisions here, it is the “Good Old Boys Club” that consists of Mark B, Brent, Mark D and probably a few more who have been leaders for a long time.


Impressive thread. I feel God's love moving in this group.

Oneofmany
“I want to do something, anything, to stop these evil men from deceiving more people. After the recent sermons I no longer want to hear them apologize or repent. I simply do not believe that they are men of God. They serve themselves. And another.”

Searching
“I'm sorry, but these men have no integrity.”

GodisFaithful
“At this point I think most of the pastors at Evergreen are desperately trying to hang on to their glory days, their faithful followers, control and authority, and their "good name."’

 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 12:46:31 pm by searching » Logged
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