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Author Topic: Findings of Investigation Made Public  (Read 44393 times)
Badger
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« Reply #80 on: June 18, 2018, 05:39:20 pm »

I'm a little skeptical when churches pray to do the right thing in situations of abuse.

I also wouldn't be surprised if GCC uses the pastors conference to disseminate a more private statement on the position that GCC and Evergreen is taking.  Seems a better move to quell any concerns or questions in the such a context where national leaders can reassure everyone and tell them how to be unified.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2018, 07:58:53 am »

Here is the description of the prayer event.

"The first-century church sought God together through prayer and fasting as they faced difficult times and strived to embrace Jesus’ call to witness the Gospel to all people. Our church is also navigating a difficult time and we are on the eve of an all-location “Mission to Our City” to love our neighbors and share the hope of Christ. Please join us for an all-location gathering of worship, prayer, and fasting as we believe God to humble, equip, and embolden us. We will pray that God will break spiritual strongholds and advance His kingdom. If you cannot attend, please consider fasting all day on Sunday and joining us in spirit by praying."
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Linda
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« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2018, 08:16:10 am »

Here is the description of the prayer event.

"The first-century church sought God together through prayer and fasting as they faced difficult times and strived to embrace Jesus’ call to witness the Gospel to all people. Our church is also navigating a difficult time and we are on the eve of an all-location “Mission to Our City” to love our neighbors and share the hope of Christ. Please join us for an all-location gathering of worship, prayer, and fasting as we believe God to humble, equip, and embolden us. We will pray that God will break spiritual strongholds and advance His kingdom. If you cannot attend, please consider fasting all day on Sunday and joining us in spirit by praying."

Since you are a current attender, am I correct is assuming that the elders are denying the allegations that they knew about and covered up these allegations and therefore are presenting this as a "difficult time" due to false allegations, rather than a "difficult time" caused by sin and a cover up of sin?

Have the elders ever publicly denied Suzanne's charge that they knew about these allegations and covered them up?

Do you have the sense should any of the allegations be found true, that the church will take the stand that the victims should just "let it go" (as suggested in the sermon where BK said, "Your sin against God is so much greater than anything anybody else has ever done to you...Your God absorbed your debt...he absorbed death, can you not absorb the sin of somebody else?") or will they follow the Biblical charge in 1 Timothy 5 regarding an elder who sins (and I would view a cover up of sin as sin, as well): "Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses. Those who sin should be reprimanded in front of the whole church; this will serve as a strong warning to others."
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Rebel in a Good Way
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« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2018, 12:04:01 pm »

I just wanted to share this article and this thread seems as good a place as any. 

ECC made a positive choice by involving Joan Harris.  However, in other actions I think they fell short.  In regards to the following quote, I do not believe they focused on victims, neither 18 years ago, nor currently.  When a victim voiced 2 specific requests (please let us work together to choose an investigator so we also feel comfortable, make the process transparent so we know the truth will be known), a victim-focused church would have said yes. The secrecy and lack of transparency shows that ECC does view the allegations as a threat.  To their credit, they did not go so far as to shut them down (after the initial tweet trying to do just that), but they seem to trying to "manage" the threat and protect their reputation.

Well, the reputation part should be obvious since that is what Brent Knox grieved more than anything AND they're doing a sermon series on criticism.   

"What churches need to get is there are only two options: You can protect your own reputation or you can protect the victims. Putting a victim’s needs first puts a church’s reputation and even existence at risk, but at least they can stand before God and say “we did the right thing.”  Pastors have to make this decision now, not in the moment: Are allegations in their church a threat? If so, he’ll probably try to shut down that threat.

https://churchleaders.com/news/327164-researcher-on-what-churches-get-wrong-with-sexual-abuse-in-the-church.html/2
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Phoenix
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« Reply #84 on: June 20, 2018, 12:21:08 pm »

Since you are a current attender, am I correct is assuming that the elders are denying the allegations that they knew about and covered up these allegations and therefore are presenting this as a "difficult time" due to false allegations, rather than a "difficult time" caused by sin and a cover up of sin?
You are not correct.  There have been no public statements in either direction.

Have the elders ever publicly denied Suzanne's charge that they knew about these allegations and covered them up?
No, but that depends how you interpret the initial response via Twitter.


Do you have the sense should any of the allegations be found true, that the church will take the stand that the victims should just "let it go" ...
I have no clue at this point.  Also, I believe it FOOLISH for ANYONE to be guessing or predicting what will happen in this case. 

Why?  Ms. Harris investigation, the media coverage and other items make this situation much different that past events.
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ShineTheLight
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« Reply #85 on: June 20, 2018, 01:33:31 pm »

Agree completely Phoenix with everything you have said; One concern I've had (in addition to the anonymous, conflicted make up of the BoT) is that I'm not sure there is any standard defined for making any of these decisions. E.g., at my company, there is a code of conduct, there are job performance expectations, attendance standards, many, many things we have to hang our hat on when making HR decisions to hire, fire, promote, demote (and even then it's subjective in a large way).  Our poor BoT has nothing, that I am aware of.  One of them could look at Joan's report and say "it was all a long time ago, his/their intentions were good, they've been through enough already & have done so much for our movement" and another could say "are you kidding me? X# of women were traumatized for many years and we'll never be able to trust Pastor X again" and there is nothing but opinion to help decide the issue between two views like this, which feels like a recipe for contention.  The standard that is oft cited is the qualifications of an elder (see link below) but the most on point of those (I think) is "above reproach"...which is awfully vague - strictly defined, no one is "above reproach" as well all sin and if caught in sin, should be reproached.

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-biblical-qualifications-pastoral-eldership-titus-15-9-1-tim-31-7-1-peter-51-4
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Huldah
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« Reply #86 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:32 pm »

the most on point of those (I think) is "above reproach"...which is awfully vague - strictly defined, no one is "above reproach" as well all sin and if caught in sin, should be reproached.

Long ago, when I attended the Columbus church, we were taught that "above reproach" didn't mean sinless. It meant that, if anyone had a valid complaint against you, you repented and made it right.

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Ghost
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« Reply #87 on: June 22, 2018, 10:07:03 pm »

The truth Shall set you free....
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OneOfMany
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« Reply #88 on: June 28, 2018, 12:07:50 pm »

I think the results will not be made public. Maybe a vague statement by the pastor's that they have seen the report and are satisfied (in some way).

I believe this because Evergreen has never been transparent. They have a long pattern of giving out vague statements. And recent communication that sets the tone for non disclosure.
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Linda
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« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2020, 05:06:35 pm »

Bumping this thread for Phoenix.
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