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Author Topic: What if MD is found to NOT be....  (Read 151463 times)
Linda
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« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2018, 07:07:55 pm »

Quote from: jdd
It's clear to me Linda that this website is very important to your identity and well-being, and that you feel like it's being invaded, sullied and injured. Perhaps now you have an idea of what I'm going through watching my father (who you have regularly denigrated on this site, long before the false allegations emerged) have his entire life and career and integrity called into question. Maybe we should focus on that common ground eh?

Clearly, all involved need to present their cases in a fair and balanced way.

It is in your father's interest (unless, of course, he did the things he was accused of) to have this be investigated by a team that all agree will be fair and the results need to be made public.

Transparency is the thing that will clear your dad's name if he has nothing to hide.

I really don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of me. I have challenged some of your father's and GCC's teaching because I believe it is wrong and people have been misled and damaged by it. I realize in the post modern world that disagreeing with someone is hating them, but that is simply not true.



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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2018, 07:20:24 pm »

Quote from: jdd
It's clear to me Linda that this website is very important to your identity and well-being, and that you feel like it's being invaded, sullied and injured. Perhaps now you have an idea of what I'm going through watching my father (who you have regularly denigrated on this site, long before the false allegations emerged) have his entire life and career and integrity called into question. Maybe we should focus on that common ground eh?

Clearly, all involved need to present their cases in a fair and balanced way.

It is in your father's interest (unless, of course, he did the things he was accused of) to have this be investigated by a team that all agree will be fair and the results need to be made public.

Transparency is the thing that will clear your dad's name if he has nothing to hide.

I really don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of me. I have challenged some of your father's and GCC's teaching because I believe it is wrong and people have been misled and damaged by it. I realize in the post modern world that disagreeing with someone is hating them, but that is simply not true.


Linda, disagreeing isn't hate. Even I know that. You've spent more time on this website than you ever spent in a GCC church or listening to my father speak. You have reserved much of your ire for a man you barely even had any conversations with, and you've dished out all your advice and warnings having never founded or a led a church on any conceivable level. This shows empirically that you're both filled with pride AND hate while simultaneously caught up in a savior's complex the likes of which I've never seen before. And all this work for what? A website with a membership that is outranked by GCC's membership about 5,000 to 1. You still can't deny this one undeniable fact: nowhere in the Bible are we instructed to behave the way you have after leaving a church. You have created your own rules which is the most slippery of slopes in the universe.
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araignee19
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« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2018, 07:39:52 pm »

Linda: I'm glad you have spent so much time here. Thanks for being diligent in what you believe God has called you to do: gently and firmly call out bad teaching.

Jeromy: the size of GCx in relation to something else has no relevance in the discussion of how correct their theology and practices are. The LDS church is huge compared to GCx. Doesn't mean a thing about the correctness of their theology or mean you are wrong if you criticize some of their teachings. Do you expect anyone here to be swayed by touting membership size?  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 07:41:36 pm by araignee19 » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2018, 07:49:53 pm »

Linda has consistently set a godly example for us all, by putting her focus on errors of doctrine and practice, rather than personal attacks. Her gracious and well-reasoned posts have been a blessing to this forum in general and to me personally.
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HughHoney
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« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2018, 08:03:21 pm »

Quote
1. I'm apart of GCC, not GCM. If you can't get your acronyms right, you shouldn't respond.

2. I don't represent GCC in defending my parents life/integrity/well-being, and conflating my defense of them with the movement I'm apart of shows your true colors.

3. Mocking me and my pain, as opposed to ever responding to any of the substance of my posts just broadcasts your inability to intellectually challenge my points on even the most basic level.

4. Clearly my dad is being accused of more than just decades old boner hugs no? He's being accused of sexually grooming 7 women and having emotional affairs with all of them, and my mother of being too dumb to know or being ok with this. As much as you'd like to trivialize and mock me for fighting for them, it only exposes your own dark, twisted intentions and thoughts.

Call it what you want. All the big names eventually leave, some are pushed out, some are pulled out and some turn their backs and walk away. This whole situation does seem like a particularly painful way to say goodbye but you donít get to be the only person with pain in their life. I might be all hat no cattle compared to your scintillating wit but clearly I prefer aphorisms to lists.

People arenít automatically bad for having emotional affairs and unaware spouses arenít necessarily dumb for being unaware but your defense has done more to amplify what your father is accused of than anyone else.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:06:54 pm by HughHoney » Logged
jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2018, 08:27:13 pm »

Linda: I'm glad you have spent so much time here. Thanks for being diligent in what you believe God has called you to do: gently and firmly call out bad teaching.

Jeromy: the size of GCx in relation to something else has no relevance in the discussion of how correct their theology and practices are. The LDS church is huge compared to GCx. Doesn't mean a thing about the correctness of their theology or mean you are wrong if you criticize some of their teachings. Do you expect anyone here to be swayed by touting membership size?  Roll Eyes

1. LDS is an entirely different religion with quite a few more members (and haters) than GCC. GCC shares the same basic values and principles of pretty much all Eve Free and Baptist churches in America. That wasn't the point of my comment. The point was the opinions on this website aren't keeping anyone away from our evil movement. This website has no power to change GCC, stop GCC, or even get an official response from GCC.

2. One-sided and mostly anonymous posts on a website that pastors in our movement are SPECIFICALLY FORBADE FROM RESPONDING ON proves again that most users on this site aren't here for healing at all - they want to vent and be validated. Incidentally, no one is even offering any solutions - it's all "this happened to me", "this pastor said this", "This church believes that" - all slime and no substance. The reason the users of this forum don't offer solutions is because they can't - they have no spiritual authority whatsoever - if they did, they'd be personally reconciling with the people that hurt them or graciously, winsomely moving on with their lives, which is the ONLY logical, Biblical thing to do when you walk away from a church that hurt you. New flash: THERE IS NO SAFE SPACE FOR CHRISTIANS. We were specifically told that. Not even JESUS CHRIST, a flawless being, had a safe place to lay his head. Searching for a safe space to vent is a fruitless endeavor.

3. Since there is no Biblical basis for running a site like this I can safely assume that most users on here are either grossly ignorant or are not real Christians at all. You guys could all be out volunteering, preaching the Gospel, saving souls, doing anything other than posting here over and over again, spiritually masturbating each other in an effort to validate your self worth and your knowledge, while perpetuating (or silently approving of) disgusting lies about my father. If any of you loved Christ the way you're claiming to, you'd have refused to take part in this message board until due process was complete - because due process is Biblical and helped build the foundation for America. Instead you're all gleefully stomping on that foundation in the hopes that your small rebellion will finally once and for all be validated. In reality, no one deserves to be investigated over words on Facebook and you all know that. You're just happy to see a man many of you despise be eviscerated online, when most of you know, in your heart, these allegations are a total sham.
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2018, 08:28:06 pm »

Call it what you want. All the big names eventually leave, some are pushed out, some are pulled out and some turn their backs and walk away. This whole situation does seem like a particularly painful way to say goodbye but you donít get to be the only person with pain in their life. I might be all hat no cattle compared to your scintillating wit but clearly I prefer aphorisms to lists.

People arenít automatically bad for having emotional affairs and unaware spouses arenít necessarily dumb for being unaware but your defense has done more to amplify what your father is accused of than anyone else.

...said an anonymous poster on a message board.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:33:54 pm by jeromydaviddarling » Logged
HughHoney
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« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2018, 08:37:19 pm »


Quote
...said an anonymous poster on a message board.

Thought you wanted to test mettle, my bad.
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jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2018, 08:41:57 pm »


Quote
...said an anonymous poster on a message board.

Thought you wanted to test mettle, my bad.

Test mettle? You think I'm on here, for the first time ever to "test mettle"? I'm on here to fight for my parent's reputation, freedom and dignity. I would give anything to have our lives back the way they were before this perversion was unleashed on us. To see my mother and father as they were before their peace was completely obliterated. I have zero interest in wasting precious, God-given time testing mettle with a bunch of anonymous users on message board.
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JessicaNoelDarling
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« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2018, 08:48:54 pm »

Quote from: jdd
It's clear to me Linda that this website is very important to your identity and well-being, and that you feel like it's being invaded, sullied and injured. Perhaps now you have an idea of what I'm going through watching my father (who you have regularly denigrated on this site, long before the false allegations emerged) have his entire life and career and integrity called into question. Maybe we should focus on that common ground eh?

Clearly, all involved need to present their cases in a fair and balanced way.

It is in your father's interest (unless, of course, he did the things he was accused of) to have this be investigated by a team that all agree will be fair and the results need to be made public.

Transparency is the thing that will clear your dad's name if he has nothing to hide.

I really don't give a hoot what anyone thinks of me. I have challenged some of your father's and GCC's teaching because I believe it is wrong and people have been misled and damaged by it. I realize in the post modern world that disagreeing with someone is hating them, but that is simply not true.





Linda, the reality is, you reside within a small minority of people who believe that GCC has damaging or false teaching. Truthfully, I haven't had a single experience at Evergreen that matches up with what you've tried to illustrate, especially with how you portray my father. I've noticed that you only use the hypothetical when talking about my dads supposed "abuse" when you're trying to appear like an objective observer. You've been anything but an objective observer. You're always one of the first to suggest something negative or sinister (this forum contains the evidence of these instances). You subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) manipulate conversations to steer in the direction of your bias which clearly intends to oppose anything related to GCC, here and on social media.

The thing is, Evergreen wouldn't be growing or thriving if it were damaging it's attenders/members the way you say it is (unless you're of the camp that we're all just brainwashed. Not a strong theory, IMO). Whether you want to believe this or not, the leadership does have an accountability structure and they do take transparency and accountability extremely seriously. Their seriousness for accountability and transparency is probably the reason they were eager to show they have nothing to hide by hiring this investigator. And whether you want to believe this or not, my family has had nothing to do with the process. And whether you're willing to believe this or not, the church organization DEPENDS on the impartiality of this 3rd party and so does the 3rd party itself. The service that those entities provide IS impartiality. That is the whole point. It's like claiming a lemonade stand is going to secretly sell you prune juice. Do you think they'd really make it with that business strategy? Methinks that the reason there is such intolerance for Evergreen hiring an impartial investigator has more to do with hedging your bets in this conversation. If it doesn't go your way, you can always say, "Well, they didn't hire the right person. They hired someone partial to them. etc etc".  I'm sorry for whatever happened to you that hurt you so badly. I truly am. You must've felt very hurt to have put this much time and effort into supporting this forum for all of these years. Your commitment to trying to "expose" GCC had already been established which makes the things you say about this situation with Suzanne much less believable or credible, especially considering how fast you jumped on one side of the argument without the facts, evidence, or the other side of the story. You yourself have stated that it's always important to hear both sides to every story. So which is it? Do you want to be objective and honest, or do you just want to say you're being objective and honest? How do you reconcile what you say with what you are doing? Can you bring clarity to this?
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Boggs
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« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2018, 08:57:55 pm »

Whether you want to believe this or not, the leadership does have an accountability structure and they do take transparency and accountability extremely seriously.

Jessica to be fair I am skeptical of this but open to be convinced. Can you talk more about this accountability structure? My impression from experiences elsewhere in the Northlands Region was that pastors were accountable to each other, but I never heard of a formal accountability structure. I think we both agree that accountability in leadership is critical.

Edit - hope you see this - but I would also like to know more about the transparency and how it might be applied in this case.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 08:59:26 pm by Boggs » Logged
HughHoney
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« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2018, 09:02:48 pm »

Quote

Test mettle? You think I'm on here, for the first time ever to "test mettle"? I'm on here to fight for my parent's reputation, freedom and dignity. I would give anything to have our lives back the way they were before this perversion was unleashed on us. To see my mother and father as they were before their peace was completely obliterated. I have zero interest in wasting precious, God-given time testing mettle with a bunch of anonymous users on message board.

I would vote for your wishes to come true but in the interest of time: a forum isn’t able to bring back your peace or undo what has been done. Neither are the things you post here. They bring the opposite.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 09:05:54 pm by HughHoney » Logged
Linda
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« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2018, 09:58:21 pm »

To clarify, there needs to be an independent 3rd party investigation into these serious allegations where both sides can confidently state their case. The current investigation, no matter what ECC says, is not an independent investigation because ECC controls the results and refuses to allow transparency.

Anyone suggesting I believe anything else is not speaking for me.



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Mapleleaf
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« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2018, 07:44:21 am »

I am a current member of ECC, and to help show that Jeromy and his group of "folllowers" don't speak for all of us, I'd like the counter all of his beliefs with what I believe as a member of ECC.

1)  I believe that scout was a victim of multiple forms of abuse by her pastor Mark Darling, including emotional abuse, psychological abuse, abuse of power.  I believe her account of what happened when she was younger and in the college group and the inappropriate things done by her pastor.  I believe that 25-30 years later, some exact details may not be remembered exactly right, which allows other to try to poke holes in her story, but I believe the overarching important points.
2)  I believe the account of Victim C, and count it as a second account of abuse at the hands of Mark Darling.
3)  I believe the account of Victim A, and count it as a third account of abuse at the hands of Mark Darling.
4)  I believe the reports that say there could be 3-5 other women with similar stories that either choose not to speak or are fearful of what will happen if they speak.
5)  I believe that the actions of Jeromy Darling and all of his "followers" are a form of active suppression of any and all voices that would like to speak against Mark Darling, including potential other victims.
6)  I believe the "investigation" will be limited in the amount of information and truth it will be able to collect, partially due to the active suppression that Jeromy and his "followers" are pushing.
7)  I believe that this will likely cause the "investigation" to come to inconclusive results, not able to verify fully and evidence of abuse, but for you "followers", I'd like to point out that doesn't make Mark innocent, it just makes him not able to be found guilty by this "investigation" that was handcuffed by the suppression from within our church working on his behalf.

I don't know where that will leave the church and it's Board on the next steps.  But for me as a member, I will be extremely troubled by the things I've learned.  I will be extremely troubled that the investigation by my church was potentially hand-cuffed by the forces for suppression from within my church.  I will be left unsure whether I should trust one of the founding pastors of my church.  I will be left unsure whether any of the other pastors from this church even had the necessary level of accountability over Mark.  I will be left to wonder if all the rumors of our cult-like past are more than just rumors.

So I ask you, Jeromy and your team of "followers", as a member of this church, you have caused me to have growing, serious concerns about my church.  You stated that your goal was only to clear your fathers name, but I don't see how you are helping that. However I do see how you are helping to cause those within your church to start questioning a lot of things.
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Huldah
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« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2018, 08:35:28 am »

Mapleleaf, you've just expressed many of my own thoughts.

4)  I believe the reports that say there could be 3-5 other women with similar stories that either choose not to speak or are fearful of what will happen if they speak.
5)  I believe that the actions of Jeromy Darling and all of his "followers" are a form of active suppression of any and all voices that would like to speak against Mark Darling, including potential other victims.
6)  I believe the "investigation" will be limited in the amount of information and truth it will be able to collect, partially due to the active suppression that Jeromy and his "followers" are pushing.

There's no other explanation that accounts for the intensity and venom of the attacks against this forum. It indicates to me that JD and his followers 1) do in fact know or suspect that there are other victims, and 2) have substantial doubts that the investigation will clear Mark's name if the other victims decide to come forward.

I've tried to figure out some other explanation for their bizarre behavior here, but this is the only one that fully accounts for it.

That's why I asked questions in my other thread about how proactive Evergreen's lawyer is allowed to be. There is evidence right here on this forum of questionable behavior by Mark, in the form of a user named Zeal4God who says Mark asked him sexually intrusive questions. But does the lawyer know about this forum, and is she free to contact members to solicit their statements? Or is the lawyer limited to a passive role of sitting back and waiting for statements to trickle in? If her role is passive, then the word "investigation" is misleading. Until we understand more about the process, it's pretty hard to have much faith in it.

7)  I believe that this will likely cause the "investigation" to come to inconclusive results, not able to verify fully and evidence of abuse, but for you "followers", I'd like to point out that doesn't make Mark innocent, it just makes him not able to be found guilty by this "investigation" that was handcuffed by the suppression from within our church working on his behalf.

This is my concern, too. Not that the lawyer will necessarily act unethically, but that witnesses are being intimidated and silenced.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 08:38:04 am by Huldah » Logged
Shamednomore
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« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2018, 08:43:26 am »

Or was the lawyer just hired to defend ECC, and MD, and try to find ways to discredit the women and deter them from speaking out
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Huldah
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« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2018, 08:45:02 am »

Or was the lawyer just hired... to find ways to discredit the women and deter them from speaking out
Why would they pay a lawyer for that when JD & co. will do it for free?  Undecided
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Shamednomore
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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2018, 08:49:14 am »

True.  But this way they get to hide behind their "investigation".  And blast truthseekers.  Labeling them nonchristians or stupid. 
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Huldah
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« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2018, 08:59:29 am »

And bitter. Don't forget bitter.  Tongue

There was a corrupt political operative in the late 19th century known as Boss Tweed. He reportedly said, "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating."

It's looking very much like we now have a case of, "I don't care who does the investigating (as long as it's not GRACE, that is), as long as I get to control the witness list."
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2018, 10:32:43 am »

Or was the lawyer just hired to defend ECC, and MD, and try to find ways to discredit the women and deter them from speaking out

I suggest you contact someone and ask these questions, instead of speculative gossip here. 
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