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Author Topic: The Hypocritical Actions of Mark Bowen  (Read 12192 times)
PietWowo
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« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2018, 10:23:39 am »

I know, Hulda. Why do some of Mark Darling supporters come on here pretending? It's the same as lying. Why do they feel the need to pretend? Just come out and be truthful. If you have an agenda against Suzanne and are trying to support Mark Darling as a great wonderful godly man then just come on here and be honest about where you are coming from and why. I don't think that Looking4Answers is looking for answers that we have, but trying to be sneaky. Only it isn't very sneaky, it's obvious. It's like a toddler hiding behind a small plant and thinking no one can see him.

Tell me one lie that I have made... I've been truthful with you all.
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Linda
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« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2018, 10:27:52 am »

Hey PWW,

1. Just what exactly would constitute sufficient proof in your eyes?

2. Do you think the BOT rescinded Mark’s ordination without sufficient proof?

I looked back and saw that it was Looking 4 Answers that is quite certain that Mark Darling's family was not interviewed.

Looking 4 Answers is the one who also was looking for answers about details of Suzanne's sex life, too, like as if that is appropriate to be asking about. Maybe PWW and Looking4Answers could team up and start a thread about the questions and opinions they have about Suzanne's sex life. I guess there are some people out there who think this is perfectly appropriate. That is exactly what Mark Darling did, among other things, that got him in this mess. Asking about people's sex life and thinking it is his business. And here are people just like him. It would be nice if they could keep it to one thread, so we could avoid it. They could start any rumors and slander that they wanted on there, and come up with verses to support their behavior. It seems that Mark Darling's behavior has rubbed off on some of his followers.

Well, I would not be considered one of Mark Darling's followers. I don't believe asking very private questions about someone's sexlife is appropriate to be done in a private setting, unless the person might be a sex therapist.  But Mark Darling isn't. But I have yet to see any proof that Mark Darling has done what you all are saying he has done. Suzanne might have said that story, but I question the sanity of her and her story doesn't add up. For me to believe it, Suzanne would have to come up with a more convincing story, but her story is fake news in my mind. And the whole thing seems to be a witch hunt.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2018, 10:33:30 am »

That is the positive thing, Huldah. I found this after being in my second cult, the Bill Gothard one. That was being exposed online, and at the time I was reading about that, I stumbled on this one and it was so healing and helpful to know that we were not the only ones who were ostracized from a GC church because we were questioning some things.

Most people, in an abusive church, have some little red flags that go up in their minds, but then they squelch those red flags, and think, naw, but the people are so nice and the pastor always remembers my name, and it seem *pretty* normal, and all my friends seem so nice and they are happy here. Easy to talk yourself out of the red flags. My husband and I were just talking about some of those. We didn't even share some of our doubts with each other, just little nagging doubts, like, "these sermons are really dry, do I really have to put up with this the rest of my life, and if the GC pastors hung the moon like they say then why is this stuff that they preach over and over so stale?" The first red flag that I remember is when Brent Knox told us insider core people that he was basicly Moses, leading us around just like Moses, and we all know what happened to the people who questioned Moses. What arrogance it that!! 

A couple days ago one of my sons heard about the Mark Darling fiasco, not from me. He called me  up. He said that he remembered when he was little that my husband and I talked about how weird it was that Mark Darling would hang around these pretty single girls and how we thought something was off about that. He remembers that. Crazy! A lot of people saw it. But it is weird how you get sucked into a church like this and let things pass.

Case in point: Mark Bowen's hypocritical actions. Just given a pass. After all, he is large and in charge.

Neither Bill Gothard, nor GCx is a cult. A cult has extraBiblical revelation, that they will many times put in writing and which you are to follow. They will follow this. A cult is not characterized by high commitment or so, that would make professional sports teams cults. Actually anything that is done really well would be considered a cult. Examples of cults are: Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormons, the Hare Krishnas, etc.... But not Bill Gothard or GCx.  Especially nowadays, many GCx churches appear like most other Evangelical churches. They have buildings, a music team, some pastor that teaches a teaching, then a closing song or so, and then they might have home groups which are done in many, many Evangelical churches. Many are parterned after Bill Hybels and Rick Warren churches. Very standard Evangelical churches.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2018, 10:38:46 am »

All these fake Mark Darling people...REPRESENT...just showing their true self...the real them..how sad...they have been called out..why have they not left on their own accord...just like the super defender of Mark Darling..Greentruth...only came here with his big words and infinite wisdom..once the truth known to all..he left his empire and reputation mostly intact...live to preach another day one must assume...but these other fools..man oh man..the depravity of their twisted thoughts and sick little brains..you been called out again fools..why not just leave,,what do you hope to accomplish..whats your agenda..that's right you still REPRESENT..the cult..almost text book Scientology 101..go away..simple minded pathetic losers...get a life...your only fooling yourself and making more a sick joke of the ideology you REPRESENT.....Losers...all...The Tree is no more..you have been brought down.....go away..the people have spoken...

The people have spoken??? Do you consider this to be a major forurm, where the entire USA is involved? This is is a very small forum. Just with not many people. I've managed big forums and they have a lot more posts than this. Actually, I will say this, that if this whole thing with Mark Darling hadn't happened, this forum might almost be dead....

And again GCx is not a cult. It doesn't have the characteristics of a cult. No extra Biblical revelation with GCx. It's an orthodox Evangelical group.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2018, 10:47:50 am »

Hey PWW,

1. Just what exactly would constitute sufficient proof in your eyes?

2. Do you think the BOT rescinded Mark’s ordination without sufficient proof?

I looked back and saw that it was Looking 4 Answers that is quite certain that Mark Darling's family was not interviewed.

Looking 4 Answers is the one who also was looking for answers about details of Suzanne's sex life, too, like as if that is appropriate to be asking about. Maybe PWW and Looking4Answers could team up and start a thread about the questions and opinions they have about Suzanne's sex life. I guess there are some people out there who think this is perfectly appropriate. That is exactly what Mark Darling did, among other things, that got him in this mess. Asking about people's sex life and thinking it is his business. And here are people just like him. It would be nice if they could keep it to one thread, so we could avoid it. They could start any rumors and slander that they wanted on there, and come up with verses to support their behavior. It seems that Mark Darling's behavior has rubbed off on some of his followers.

Well, I would not be considered one of Mark Darling's followers. I don't believe asking very private questions about someone's sexlife is appropriate to be done in a private setting, unless the person might be a sex therapist.  But Mark Darling isn't. But I have yet to see any proof that Mark Darling has done what you all are saying he has done. Suzanne might have said that story, but I question the sanity of her and her story doesn't add up. For me to believe it, Suzanne would have to come up with a more convincing story, but her story is fake news in my mind. And the whole thing seems to be a witch hunt.

Thank you for addressing issues.

Sufficient truth would make it so that the end story would have made sense. The story would also make sense when you compare it with the story of the family. Also, I would need to know more about the so called "victims"  Who are they? Are they of sane mind? I would need to know more about Suzanne? Why did she keep this story so long secret? Why post on some small forum about people disgruntled with GCM? The correct and more effective way to handle this is to put pressure on the local board of elders in Minneapolis there, then take it to the head office of GCx and try to bring other pastors (maybe of other denominations in), or hire a Christian attorney and escalate things from there. It's ungodly according to I Corinthians to take things in front of unbelievers.   The story of the Darling family would need to line up with the story of Suzanne.

Right now her story doesn't add up...  As a matter of fact it's ridiculous. When I read the story of the Darlings, it makes a lot of sense.
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Barb
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« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2018, 11:53:10 am »

PietWowo, quite frankly there is nothing that anyone says that’s going to change your mind on this matter. I am still in contact with Suzanne. I know several of the other victims (4 to be exact) They are women of good character. Believers who are continuing in their walks with the Lord. They all testify to Mark Darling’s inappropriate conversations and behavior towards themselves. For me, their testimonies alone are sufficient as I know them to be honest, God-fearing women who have nothing to gain from bringing these allegations forward.

You, looking on from the outside, armed with only the information you can glean from social media, are free to make any judgement you wish. You frequently make protestations about things that have already been answered on this platform or in the BOT report. You can choose to disbelieve those answers, but continuing to bring them up is just annoying. Acknowledge that the answers are there and you don’t believe them.
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Linda
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« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2018, 12:01:30 pm »

Quote from: PWW
The correct and more effective way to handle this is to put pressure on the local board of elders in Minneapolis...

Are you referring to the local board of elders in Minneapolis who acknowledged Suzanne's concerns of inappropriate behavior yet failed to implement appropriate corrective action regarding Mark Darling's conduct that disqualified him as an elder based on the standards spelled out in Titus 1? That elder board?

Tell me, why would any rational person go back to that board and expect anything to be resolved? They failed in their most fundamental duty as a shepherd. Protecting the sheep.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:04:52 pm by Linda » Logged

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PietWowo
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« Reply #107 on: July 19, 2018, 12:39:46 pm »

Quote from: PWW
The correct and more effective way to handle this is to put pressure on the local board of elders in Minneapolis...

Are you referring to the local board of elders in Minneapolis who acknowledged Suzanne's concerns of inappropriate behavior yet failed to implement appropriate corrective action regarding Mark Darling's conduct that disqualified him as an elder based on the standards spelled out in Titus 1? That elder board?

Tell me, why would any rational person go back to that board and expect anything to be resolved? They failed in their most fundamental duty as a shepherd. Protecting the sheep.



Then I would take it to the next level as I wrote..... I would go with other pastors (from maybe other Christian denominations to the ones, who are leading the GCx movement.  I wouldn't put it on a forum like this. Anyone can write anything on any forum.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #108 on: July 19, 2018, 12:42:19 pm »


Thank you for addressing issues.

Sufficient truth would make it so that the end story would have made sense. The story would also make sense when you compare it with the story of the family. Also, I would need to know more about the so called "victims"  Who are they? Are they of sane mind? I would need to know more about Suzanne? Why did she keep this story so long secret? Why post on some small forum about people disgruntled with GCM? The correct and more effective way to handle this is to put pressure on the local board of elders in Minneapolis there, then take it to the head office of GCx and try to bring other pastors (maybe of other denominations in), or hire a Christian attorney and escalate things from there. It's ungodly according to I Corinthians to take things in front of unbelievers.   The story of the Darling family would need to line up with the story of Suzanne.

Right now her story doesn't add up...  As a matter of fact it's ridiculous. When I read the story of the Darlings, it makes a lot of sense.

I get that Suzanne's story will never make sense in the small insulated world that you live in, but it has been validated everywhere else, even by GCx. Nobody here cares about your opinions, which are built on assumptions and fueled by misogyny. Time to take your Mark Darling glorification elsewhere. In fact there is a whole website for deniers and holdouts like yourself that is dedicated to the subject.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 01:00:52 pm by G_Prince » Logged

Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
GodisFaithful
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« Reply #109 on: July 19, 2018, 01:30:47 pm »

Linda, I think PWW might have meant the board that Mark Bowen was the head honcho of, do you think? Mark Bowen who did nothing to follow up on steps that Mark Darling was supposed to take after being inappropriate and abusive to Suzanne. I think PWW thinks Suzanne was supposed to go back to Mark Bowen to be fully heard this time, hopefully, even though two other women went to Mark Bowen with the same kind of complaints and that didn't go anywhere. But PWW doesn't seem to know all this history even though he has very strong opinions about what Suzanne should have done.

And PWW says that it does not make sense that Mark Darling did these bad things. No it does not make any sense at all. It does not make sense that Mark Darling would risk his marriage and his being a pastor for such cheap thrills, but that is what he did. But for PWW, he just hears what Mark Darling and his family have to say about it, and that makes sense, so if that makes sense to PWW then that is what matters, even though an investigation went on for months. Does that make sense? Well, no it doesn't, but if it makes sense to PWW I guess that is the real meat of all this, this one guy who came out of the blue out of nowhere and never been in Minnesota and does not know Mark Darling or any of the women involved but it's got to make sense to him.

And actually, he's got company, if he ever wants to move here, because like G Prince says, there are a whole bunch of people who are going with what Mark Darling and his family say. And that is what makes sense to them, too.

See, it's gotta make sense to PWW.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #110 on: July 19, 2018, 01:42:05 pm »


Thank you for addressing issues.

Sufficient truth would make it so that the end story would have made sense. The story would also make sense when you compare it with the story of the family. Also, I would need to know more about the so called "victims"  Who are they? Are they of sane mind? I would need to know more about Suzanne? Why did she keep this story so long secret? Why post on some small forum about people disgruntled with GCM? The correct and more effective way to handle this is to put pressure on the local board of elders in Minneapolis there, then take it to the head office of GCx and try to bring other pastors (maybe of other denominations in), or hire a Christian attorney and escalate things from there. It's ungodly according to I Corinthians to take things in front of unbelievers.   The story of the Darling family would need to line up with the story of Suzanne.

Right now her story doesn't add up...  As a matter of fact it's ridiculous. When I read the story of the Darlings, it makes a lot of sense.

I get that Suzanne's story will never make sense in the small insulated world that you live in, but it has been validated everywhere else, even by GCx. Nobody here cares about your opinions, which are built on assumptions and fueled by misogyny. Time to take your Mark Darling glorification elsewhere. In fact there is a whole website for deniers and holdouts like yourself that is dedicated to the subject.

Really, I live in a small world. Just this year, I've been in 5 continents already.

Again, I don't see how you have a problem with what happened to Suzanne. You have rejected all form of authority (like the Bible) in your life, so you have no basis of saying anything is wrong or right...  You are the one full of assumptions. But maybe because you have rejected the Scriptures that's not a problem for you, because you follow your mentor, the father of lies.
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PietWowo
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« Reply #111 on: July 19, 2018, 01:49:03 pm »

Linda, I think PWW might have meant the board that Mark Bowen was the head honcho of, do you think? Mark Bowen who did nothing to follow up on steps that Mark Darling was supposed to take after being inappropriate and abusive to Suzanne. I think PWW thinks Suzanne was supposed to go back to Mark Bowen to be fully heard this time, hopefully, even though two other women went to Mark Bowen with the same kind of complaints and that didn't go anywhere. But PWW doesn't seem to know all this history even though he has very strong opinions about what Suzanne should have done.

And PWW says that it does not make sense that Mark Darling did these bad things. No it does not make any sense at all. It does not make sense that Mark Darling would risk his marriage and his being a pastor for such cheap thrills, but that is what he did. But for PWW, he just hears what Mark Darling and his family have to say about it, and that makes sense, so if that makes sense to PWW then that is what matters, even though an investigation went on for months. Does that make sense? Well, no it doesn't, but if it makes sense to PWW I guess that is the real meat of all this, this one guy who came out of the blue out of nowhere and never been in Minnesota and does not know Mark Darling or any of the women involved but it's got to make sense to him.

And actually, he's got company, if he ever wants to move here, because like G Prince says, there are a whole bunch of people who are going with what Mark Darling and his family say. And that is what makes sense to them, too.

See, it's gotta make sense to PWW.

That independent counsel did not supply anything of substance. They didn't even talk to Mark Darling to hear his side of the story.... And then they put out a fake weak report. Fake news.

Besides that, were they even believers to be investigating something like that.

Do not follow G Prince. He doesn't even follow what the Scriptures says. He is following lies in his life.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #112 on: July 19, 2018, 01:59:47 pm »


And PWW says that it does not make sense that Mark Darling did these bad things. No it does not make any sense at all. It does not make sense that Mark Darling would risk his marriage and his being a pastor for such cheap thrills, but that is what he did. But for PWW, he just hears what Mark Darling and his family have to say about it, and that makes sense, so if that makes sense to PWW then that is what matters, even though an investigation went on for months. Does that make sense? Well, no it doesn't, but if it makes sense to PWW I guess that is the real meat of all this, this one guy who came out of the blue out of nowhere and never been in Minnesota and does not know Mark Darling or any of the women involved but it's got to make sense to him.

See, it's gotta make sense to PWW.

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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
PietWowo
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« Reply #113 on: July 19, 2018, 02:11:56 pm »


And PWW says that it does not make sense that Mark Darling did these bad things. No it does not make any sense at all. It does not make sense that Mark Darling would risk his marriage and his being a pastor for such cheap thrills, but that is what he did. But for PWW, he just hears what Mark Darling and his family have to say about it, and that makes sense, so if that makes sense to PWW then that is what matters, even though an investigation went on for months. Does that make sense? Well, no it doesn't, but if it makes sense to PWW I guess that is the real meat of all this, this one guy who came out of the blue out of nowhere and never been in Minnesota and does not know Mark Darling or any of the women involved but it's got to make sense to him.

See, it's gotta make sense to PWW.



Well, we all knew who did the nailing....  You're again lining yourself up with the father of lies.
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OneOfMany
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« Reply #114 on: July 19, 2018, 02:24:44 pm »

I am glad that Pietwoowoo is posting. Anyone not in the cult will clearly see the cultish lack of empathy and critical thinking that is employed by leaders and learned by followers who do not leave. Jesus forgives and has compassion. Not people like Pietwoowoo whose words show someone deeply entrenched in the robot non-thinking verbiage of a cult!

Statements that blame the victims such as saying they were committing fornication or should have handled things differently reveals a chilling display of judgement and an inability to extend love as Jesus exemplifies.

There is nothing better as a warning about Evergreen and the Rock to those who come to this forum than the heartless words of Pietwoowoo. I believe without intending to he is showing the world what a cruel system GCM churches are.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #115 on: July 19, 2018, 02:33:52 pm »

I am glad that Pietwoowoo is posting. Anyone not in the cult will clearly see the cultish lack of empathy and critical thinking that is employed by leaders and learned by followers who do not leave. Jesus forgives and has compassion. Not people like Pietwoowoo whose words show someone deeply entrenched in the robot non-thinking verbiage of a cult!

Statements that blame the victims such as saying they were committing fornication or should have handled things differently reveals a chilling display of judgement and an inability to extend love as Jesus exemplifies.

There is nothing better as a warning about Evergreen and the Rock to those who come to this forum than the heartless words of Pietwoowoo. I believe without intending to he is showing the world what a cruel system GCM churches are.

Only responding in GIFS now.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Barb
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« Reply #116 on: July 19, 2018, 02:42:13 pm »


That independent counsel did not supply anything of substance. They didn't even talk to Mark Darling to hear his side of the story.... And then they put out a fake weak report. Fake news.

Besides that, were they even believers to be investigating something like that.

Do not follow G Prince. He doesn't even follow what the Scriptures says. He is following lies in his life.

I'm going to try one last time to explain this to you.

Joan Harris was hired by Evergreen to investigate the allegations against Mark Darling. Over the course of about two months she met with many people, including myself. During my meeting with her, she indicated that her last meeting would be with Mark Darling. I have no knowledge of whether that meeting actually took place, but if it did not that was Mark's choice.  When she completed her investigation, she submitted a report to Evergreen's Board of Trustees. After reading the report from Ms. Harris, the Board wrote up the report that someone linked to on this forum. Yes, the Board's report is vague and lacking details. This grieves many of us. However, the Board did determine that the information in Ms. Harris' report was sufficient to rescind Mark Darling's ordination and issue the statement confirming the validity of Suzanne's  (and others) allegations regarding Mark meeting with them privately and having inappropriate conversations of a sexual nature. They also confirmed that Suzanne (and two other women) had brought these issues to Mark Bowen in (or prior to) 2001.

In summary, aside from Ms. Harris and the Board of Trustees, none of us have access to all of the information. of course, you are free to choose whose story you wish to believe, but keep in mind that the people who have a lot more information than you or I decided that Mark Darling was guilty of at least some of the allegations put forth.
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Differentstrokes
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« Reply #117 on: July 19, 2018, 02:50:38 pm »

Boy catching up on all this activity is making me physically sick...
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PietWowo
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« Reply #118 on: July 19, 2018, 03:00:10 pm »


That independent counsel did not supply anything of substance. They didn't even talk to Mark Darling to hear his side of the story.... And then they put out a fake weak report. Fake news.

Besides that, were they even believers to be investigating something like that.

Do not follow G Prince. He doesn't even follow what the Scriptures says. He is following lies in his life.

I'm going to try one last time to explain this to you.

Joan Harris was hired by Evergreen to investigate the allegations against Mark Darling. Over the course of about two months she met with many people, including myself. During my meeting with her, she indicated that her last meeting would be with Mark Darling. I have no knowledge of whether that meeting actually took place, but if it did not that was Mark's choice.  When she completed her investigation, she submitted a report to Evergreen's Board of Trustees. After reading the report from Ms. Harris, the Board wrote up the report that someone linked to on this forum. Yes, the Board's report is vague and lacking details. This grieves many of us. However, the Board did determine that the information in Ms. Harris' report was sufficient to rescind Mark Darling's ordination and issue the statement confirming the validity of Suzanne's  (and others) allegations regarding Mark meeting with them privately and having inappropriate conversations of a sexual nature. They also confirmed that Suzanne (and two other women) had brought these issues to Mark Bowen in (or prior to) 2001.

In summary, aside from Ms. Harris and the Board of Trustees, none of us have access to all of the information. of course, you are free to choose whose story you wish to believe, but keep in mind that the people who have a lot more information than you or I decided that Mark Darling was guilty of at least some of the allegations put forth.

Was Joan Harris a believer?
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PietWowo
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« Reply #119 on: July 19, 2018, 03:01:04 pm »

Boy catching up on all this activity is making me physically sick...

Then you shouldn't be trying to catch up. It would be bad for your health.
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