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Author Topic: Faithwalkers 2010 (Or Faithwalkaz, as I like to call it)  (Read 54062 times)
LucyB
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« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2011, 07:11:44 pm »

I'm pretty sure all religions sing. I tried to think of one that does not sing. Maybe scientology? Googled it. Yes, they sing. Of course, all Christians (including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Catholics) know that their history of religious song dates back to Judaism. And of course, the Muslim call to prayer is a song. Buddhists and Sikhs all do a lot of singing.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 07:15:07 pm by LucyB » Logged
blonde
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« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2011, 07:54:47 pm »

Sure.  I know other religions do.  I was just wanting people to get the idea.  Any more?
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« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2011, 08:06:10 pm »

well I finally took some time to listen to several Faithwalkers messages, and it was the first time I ever listened to Mark Darling.   My reaction would be one of exhaustion (see my other post from yesterday), and of mixed emotion.  I see someone who has a genuine heart for the Lord, and wants to get the message of the Gospel out.  On the other hand, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel use to have an expression "beating the sheep".  Lead the flock to green pastures and sweet water, encourage them to partake, learn and grow, there's no need to whip, beat, and chastise and burden down with rules and regulations. 

I am glad I finally learned the lesson of Romans 4.  When God looks at me, he sees me no longer in filthy rags, but in a white robe of righteousness.  "However to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness".  He goes on to use David and Abraham as examples.  Nothing will ever make me more righteous than the day I accpeted Christ as my savior.  I don't need works/righteousness to be justified.  It's been done.

God is pleased with us as believers.  He is pleased we seek him, and want to know more about him.  He forgives us, and doesn't even see our sin anymore, he wants to give us gifts, and seat us at the table at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Lighten up on your flock, and realize God has a plan for each and every one of us, and it may or may not conform to GCC. 
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ustawannabee
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« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2011, 08:21:50 am »

The discussion about singing reminds me of an amusing (and irrelevant, probably) story.
 Several years ago, I attended an Ethical Humanist retreat. I was tickled at how much it was like any other church retreat, with a Friday night big session, some workshops on Sat. AM and free time on Sat. afternoon and a large "service" again on Sunday AM. It was so church like that there was even a discussion about the problem that was causing a lack of unity in the group. Someone had died and left the group a lot of money and there was disagreement and hard feelings over how it should be spent. Roll Eyes

The thing that struck me the most was the "sing time" on Sat. night. No one was very talented  (potentially also very church like Wink ) and they didn't have any songs!! just an old show tune or two. That was when I realized that since they were not redeemed they had nothing to sing about. It was actually an encouraging experience. Perhaps the original statement that GCx speaker made should have been that Christianity (and Judaism) is the only religion with something to sing about! We HAVE  a REDEEMER!!
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« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2011, 09:42:18 pm »

well I finally took some time to listen to several Faithwalkers messages, and it was the first time I ever listened to Mark Darling.   My reaction would be one of exhaustion (see my other post from yesterday), and of mixed emotion.  I see someone who has a genuine heart for the Lord, and wants to get the message of the Gospel out.  On the other hand, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel use to have an expression "beating the sheep".  Lead the flock to green pastures and sweet water, encourage them to partake, learn and grow, there's no need to whip, beat, and chastise and burden down with rules and regulations. 

I am glad I finally learned the lesson of Romans 4.  When God looks at me, he sees me no longer in filthy rags, but in a white robe of righteousness.  "However to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness".  He goes on to use David and Abraham as examples.  Nothing will ever make me more righteous than the day I accpeted Christ as my savior.  I don't need works/righteousness to be justified.  It's been done.

God is pleased with us as believers.  He is pleased we seek him, and want to know more about him.  He forgives us, and doesn't even see our sin anymore, he wants to give us gifts, and seat us at the table at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Lighten up on your flock, and realize God has a plan for each and every one of us, and it may or may not conform to GCC. 

I wholeheartedly agree with what you have written here. In my time at the GC church that I attended, I constantly felt like I had to do more. I had to read my bible more, I had to serve more, I had to evangelize more, I had to meet with people more, I had to fellowship more, I had to give up more. I listened to a message once at the campus service where the speaker said that if we are not exhausted, we are probably not giving everything and we are holding out on people. I felt that if I went to bed before other people or didn't go to a group hang-out, I was giving God less than my all. I felt like I shouldn't read a book that wasn't the Bible or a Christian book because I was wasting time. I felt like I needed to be meeting other Christians one-to-one any free time that I had. I felt like I always needed to have something to share when asked the questions "What have you been learning lately?" or "What have you been struggling with lately?" Basically I never felt like I was doing enough or sacrificing enough.

While I was in the church, I never felt I could say anything about it. Being exhausted was a good thing. Acting like I was not sick when I was sick was a good thing. Oh how these things were praised by your peers! And that praise was just an encouragement to do it more. In my mind, I viewed people that went to bed at a healthy hour or rested when they were sick as selfish. They weren't relying on God's strength to get them through, they didn't trust God enough.

Vacations were non-existent. The closest thing to a vacation was a retreat or a mission trip. It would be selfish of me to use time (that I could be using to evangelize or reach out or build into someones life) for something like a vacation. People that had to go on family vacations were pitied as if it was a burden to go on a vacation.

People in that church loved God, there was no denying that. They really and truly loved Him and wanted more people to see His love. Unfortunately, it's become like a formula to them. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and then starts attending things regularly, that person is bearing fruit. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and attends things semi-regularly, that person needs to grow more. If someone that has made a profession of faith and done one of the above before stopping, that person is falling away and not willing to live the Christian life. A person's growth is measured by how active they are in the church and by how much they agree with what everybody else says.

If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.
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Linda
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« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2011, 10:15:49 pm »

Quote from: No Longer Exhausted
If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.
Amen.

Exhausted and very little to show for it.

10 years there and I can count the lasting friendships on one hand.

I can't think of one lasting thing I did for the kingdom in exchange for 3 or 4 days a week and thousands of dollars. I can think of a lot of things I didn't do for the kingdom because I was busy with church stuff. Things like, get to know my neighbors. Spend time with my aging parents.

I left weary and exhausted and frightened by how deceived I was.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 10:25:53 pm by Linda » Logged

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« Reply #126 on: January 26, 2011, 11:47:53 am »

Quote from: No Longer Exhausted
If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.
Amen.

Exhausted and very little to show for it.

10 years there and I can count the lasting friendships on one hand.

I can't think of one lasting thing I did for the kingdom in exchange for 3 or 4 days a week and thousands of dollars. I can think of a lot of things I didn't do for the kingdom because I was busy with church stuff. Things like, get to know my neighbors. Spend time with my aging parents.
Double amen!  I wasted a decade of my life on the GC treadmill.  I'm doing my best to reclaim some of that time now, but a lot of it is lost.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2011, 04:04:09 pm »

Quote from: No Longer Exhausted
If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.
Amen.

Exhausted and very little to show for it.

10 years there and I can count the lasting friendships on one hand.

I can't think of one lasting thing I did for the kingdom in exchange for 3 or 4 days a week and thousands of dollars. I can think of a lot of things I didn't do for the kingdom because I was busy with church stuff. Things like, get to know my neighbors. Spend time with my aging parents.
Double amen!  I wasted a decade of my life on the GC treadmill.  I'm doing my best to reclaim some of that time now, but a lot of it is lost.

I feel this way too!  It was like 8 years of busywork!
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LucyB
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« Reply #128 on: January 26, 2011, 05:13:56 pm »

I am sorry to hear that people feel this way. I did a lot of work, but I enjoyed every minute of it. I had the attitude that my work was my worship to God. I never felt coerced.
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Linda
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« Reply #129 on: January 26, 2011, 05:33:22 pm »

I didn't mean to say I felt coerced. I didn't. I was deceived about the group, the church, the movement. The deception was not in things people said, it was in what people didn't say.

The difficulty as I look back is that I realize I thought one thing was happening (real church) and was shocked to find that something entirely different was happening ("a movement" of men). I was deceived. Plain and simple.

I went there 10 years and never heard the name Jim McCotter. I found it on a Google search of "Great Commission Churches and cults" which I did when a pastor, MD, told us we were his bride. Astonishingly bad theology that never was corrected. I can still remember the sickening feeling when I saw the Google results.

I never heard the phrase "our movement of churches" till just before our departure. I really thought this was a very loosely connected group of churches. I didn't realize they had a history and thought themselves special--set apart from all other churches and Christians.

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LucyB
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« Reply #130 on: January 26, 2011, 06:09:23 pm »

Linda:

I didn't know this either. I had the idea that it was a loosely organized group of churches. I asked the pastor why they kept having RW back to speak about child rearing, given his lack of expertise. The pastor said he was the director of the Great Commission Northwest. I was confused, but I never pursued it. I didn't make the connection that RW was not invited because of perceived expertise. It would never have occurred to me that he wasn't invited. I did not understand why they did not try harder to get the women to go to "Women of Faith." I just had all these questions brewing, but nobody was ever forthright about what the "movement" was all about. I understand about feeling deceived.

Even though I didn't understand the nature of the group, I still don't begrudge all that work. I did it for God, not for GCx. One day I was the only person from my small group that showed up to clean the church. As I was putting the vacuum away, I realized that the bag was full. I was tired and hungry, so I started to just dump the vacuum in the closet without emptying the bag. A still small voice said, "Are you doing this for ME?" I took the extra few minutes to change the bag. Maybe that little gift helped me not to associate my work with the church, but with God himself.  Or maybe I'm just a natural born chump. Roll Eyes
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kellie taylor
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« Reply #131 on: January 27, 2011, 03:07:50 pm »

As I was reading through this thread, I was amazed to find that some of you wrote that during retreats you went outside, or away from the group.
So did I!!  But I thought I was wierd, or the only one who would ever have done that.
I just had to get away from the craziness and I felt like (I think BTDT said this too) my gut was telling me something was wrong.

Thank you, I just found a little more healing today. :-)

Kellie
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MidnightRider
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« Reply #132 on: January 27, 2011, 06:28:00 pm »

As I was reading through this thread, I was amazed to find that some of you wrote that during retreats you went outside, or away from the group.
So did I!!  But I thought I was wierd, or the only one who would ever have done that.
I just had to get away from the craziness and I felt like (I think BTDT said this too) my gut was telling me something was wrong.

We were encouraged to have a "quiet time" so a little bit of time alone was OK. Nevertheless, I am sure I spent more time alone than the average retreat attender.   Smiley
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Grace
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« Reply #133 on: January 31, 2011, 10:02:01 pm »

well I finally took some time to listen to several Faithwalkers messages, and it was the first time I ever listened to Mark Darling.   My reaction would be one of exhaustion (see my other post from yesterday), and of mixed emotion.  I see someone who has a genuine heart for the Lord, and wants to get the message of the Gospel out.  On the other hand, Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel use to have an expression "beating the sheep".  Lead the flock to green pastures and sweet water, encourage them to partake, learn and grow, there's no need to whip, beat, and chastise and burden down with rules and regulations. 

I am glad I finally learned the lesson of Romans 4.  When God looks at me, he sees me no longer in filthy rags, but in a white robe of righteousness.  "However to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness".  He goes on to use David and Abraham as examples.  Nothing will ever make me more righteous than the day I accpeted Christ as my savior.  I don't need works/righteousness to be justified.  It's been done.

God is pleased with us as believers.  He is pleased we seek him, and want to know more about him.  He forgives us, and doesn't even see our sin anymore, he wants to give us gifts, and seat us at the table at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Lighten up on your flock, and realize God has a plan for each and every one of us, and it may or may not conform to GCC. 

I wholeheartedly agree with what you have written here. In my time at the GC church that I attended, I constantly felt like I had to do more. I had to read my bible more, I had to serve more, I had to evangelize more, I had to meet with people more, I had to fellowship more, I had to give up more. I listened to a message once at the campus service where the speaker said that if we are not exhausted, we are probably not giving everything and we are holding out on people. I felt that if I went to bed before other people or didn't go to a group hang-out, I was giving God less than my all. I felt like I shouldn't read a book that wasn't the Bible or a Christian book because I was wasting time. I felt like I needed to be meeting other Christians one-to-one any free time that I had. I felt like I always needed to have something to share when asked the questions "What have you been learning lately?" or "What have you been struggling with lately?" Basically I never felt like I was doing enough or sacrificing enough.

While I was in the church, I never felt I could say anything about it. Being exhausted was a good thing. Acting like I was not sick when I was sick was a good thing. Oh how these things were praised by your peers! And that praise was just an encouragement to do it more. In my mind, I viewed people that went to bed at a healthy hour or rested when they were sick as selfish. They weren't relying on God's strength to get them through, they didn't trust God enough.

Vacations were non-existent. The closest thing to a vacation was a retreat or a mission trip. It would be selfish of me to use time (that I could be using to evangelize or reach out or build into someones life) for something like a vacation. People that had to go on family vacations were pitied as if it was a burden to go on a vacation.

People in that church loved God, there was no denying that. They really and truly loved Him and wanted more people to see His love. Unfortunately, it's become like a formula to them. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and then starts attending things regularly, that person is bearing fruit. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and attends things semi-regularly, that person needs to grow more. If someone that has made a profession of faith and done one of the above before stopping, that person is falling away and not willing to live the Christian life. A person's growth is measured by how active they are in the church and by how much they agree with what everybody else says.

If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.

Wow! I feel as if you were writing about me, like you had taken a peek into my mind. I'm sorry that you went through this. I know from personal experience how exhausting it can be. I don't feel like my time doing all this was wasted but I do know now that it shouldn't have been so painful and tiring.
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Still hurting
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« Reply #134 on: February 06, 2011, 08:45:20 pm »

[
I found that any growth on my part was not acknowledged unless I was doing what everybody else was doing.

This is a serious issue. The body of Christ is to encourage one another in Christ, not just in the church. We should be like-minded because we share in the body of Christ. If we do not celebrate the growth of our brothers and sisters, there is not true fellowship. Phillippians 2:1-2 says, " 1 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind."

From my observation, I would say that the phrase "being like-minded" is used to show someones commitment to the church and thus to Christ. Being like-minded means agreeing with what everybody else agree on and not questioning culture, practices or messages within the church and the movement. This is entirely my personal observation and I could be wrong but that's what it feels like.
That was our experience, too, Grace.  Because a guy had  left our church for another, we were told not to continue to be involved with the excellent bible study outreach we had been doing with him, because he was not "like minded". In fact, that verse from Philippians 2:1-2 was shared by a gcm staff leader as biblical justification for the decision.  Never mind that he was a man after Gods heart who radiated his love. 
The staff leader was sincere in what he shared.  But his biblical interpretation skills were flawed.  And it's just been recently I've grown in understanding of not taking verses out of context so I didn't know how to respond well at the time.

I wonder if there are any current members of the GC church that I was a part of that can honestly say that this hasn't happened or if it did happen that it was the right thing?
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« Reply #135 on: March 10, 2011, 01:42:43 am »

I wholeheartedly agree with what you have written here. In my time at the GC church that I attended, I constantly felt like I had to do more. I had to read my bible more, I had to serve more, I had to evangelize more, I had to meet with people more, I had to fellowship more, I had to give up more. I listened to a message once at the campus service where the speaker said that if we are not exhausted, we are probably not giving everything and we are holding out on people. I felt that if I went to bed before other people or didn't go to a group hang-out, I was giving God less than my all. I felt like I shouldn't read a book that wasn't the Bible or a Christian book because I was wasting time. I felt like I needed to be meeting other Christians one-to-one any free time that I had. I felt like I always needed to have something to share when asked the questions "What have you been learning lately?" or "What have you been struggling with lately?" Basically I never felt like I was doing enough or sacrificing enough.

While I was in the church, I never felt I could say anything about it. Being exhausted was a good thing. Acting like I was not sick when I was sick was a good thing. Oh how these things were praised by your peers! And that praise was just an encouragement to do it more. In my mind, I viewed people that went to bed at a healthy hour or rested when they were sick as selfish. They weren't relying on God's strength to get them through, they didn't trust God enough.

Vacations were non-existent. The closest thing to a vacation was a retreat or a mission trip. It would be selfish of me to use time (that I could be using to evangelize or reach out or build into someones life) for something like a vacation. People that had to go on family vacations were pitied as if it was a burden to go on a vacation.

People in that church loved God, there was no denying that. They really and truly loved Him and wanted more people to see His love. Unfortunately, it's become like a formula to them. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and then starts attending things regularly, that person is bearing fruit. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and attends things semi-regularly, that person needs to grow more. If someone that has made a profession of faith and done one of the above before stopping, that person is falling away and not willing to live the Christian life. A person's growth is measured by how active they are in the church and by how much they agree with what everybody else says.

If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.

I read this and it felt as if you were talking about me, as if you were able to read my mind. I am still attending a GC church and I'm slowly starting to see that I don't have to do all those things that you mentioned.

I was there when a leader shared that statement about being exhausted. Maybe we're talking about the same church or maybe it's a more widely taught thing than I thought. At the time that I heard it, I put it down to his lack of experience and knowledge. I don't think he meant to make people feel guilty or inadequate.

I have definitely praised people for not acting sick when they were sick and should have been resting. I have also judged a lot of people as being less of a Christian because they went to bed at a good time or they took the time to take care of themselves. I hate that I have done that and that I have probably encouraged other people to do it too.

I once questioned a good friend's judgement because she liked to read and I made her feel like she shouldn't be wasting her time reading such books. I have since apologized to her but I still can't believe that I called her out for reading Lord of the Rings.

It scares me how much I let myself be so taken up with all this so much. Before getting involved with this church, I never felt like there was a right way to life the Christian life. But as I got more involved, it seemed like I thought there was a right way and all the other ways weren't as right and I started acting that way.

I'm slowly getting back to a place where I am able to have a more accurate and biblical view of things. It's a slow process and I'm not sure whether I will continue to be a part of this church but I'm taking it one day at a time.
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« Reply #136 on: July 05, 2011, 02:01:05 pm »

A Faithwalker's quote from Mark Darling, "Die, Mark, Die.  Die you filthy pig, die.  Cause that's all I think of my flesh."
 Cry

I don't mean to ask, but does anyone in this chat-group think Mark Darling has some real mental health issues?  I really think he does, with comments like that an his denial of swearing in the sermons. 
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« Reply #137 on: July 05, 2011, 03:31:42 pm »

A Faithwalker's quote from Mark Darling, "Die, Mark, Die.  Die you filthy pig, die.  Cause that's all I think of my flesh."
 Cry

I don't mean to ask, but does anyone in this chat-group think Mark Darling has some real mental health issues?  I really think he does, with comments like that an his denial of swearing in the sermons. 

I think in some regards his comments on that note are somewhat reasonable, when looking at the idea that our flesh causes us to sin. We desire not to sin. Therefore, it kinda makes sense to want to put to death the flesh which causes our sin (ala Col 3:5).
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« Reply #138 on: July 05, 2011, 04:53:02 pm »

We must remember that "flesh" has two NT meanings: my body and my propensity to sin. 

Having a body is not a sin (Jesus' body certainly never sinned and His having a body was not a sin).  In the eternity to come we will be reunited with our bodies, and then the body will be transformed to rid if of sin and the curse, and we will live in our bodies forever.  Kind of makes you think about the old saying, "You need to get comfortable in your own skin." 
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« Reply #139 on: July 05, 2011, 06:37:14 pm »

I wholeheartedly agree with what you have written here. In my time at the GC church that I attended, I constantly felt like I had to do more. I had to read my bible more, I had to serve more, I had to evangelize more, I had to meet with people more, I had to fellowship more, I had to give up more. I listened to a message once at the campus service where the speaker said that if we are not exhausted, we are probably not giving everything and we are holding out on people. I felt that if I went to bed before other people or didn't go to a group hang-out, I was giving God less than my all. I felt like I shouldn't read a book that wasn't the Bible or a Christian book because I was wasting time. I felt like I needed to be meeting other Christians one-to-one any free time that I had. I felt like I always needed to have something to share when asked the questions "What have you been learning lately?" or "What have you been struggling with lately?" Basically I never felt like I was doing enough or sacrificing enough.

While I was in the church, I never felt I could say anything about it. Being exhausted was a good thing. Acting like I was not sick when I was sick was a good thing. Oh how these things were praised by your peers! And that praise was just an encouragement to do it more. In my mind, I viewed people that went to bed at a healthy hour or rested when they were sick as selfish. They weren't relying on God's strength to get them through, they didn't trust God enough.

Vacations were non-existent. The closest thing to a vacation was a retreat or a mission trip. It would be selfish of me to use time (that I could be using to evangelize or reach out or build into someones life) for something like a vacation. People that had to go on family vacations were pitied as if it was a burden to go on a vacation.

People in that church loved God, there was no denying that. They really and truly loved Him and wanted more people to see His love. Unfortunately, it's become like a formula to them. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and then starts attending things regularly, that person is bearing fruit. If someone comes to the church, makes a profession of faith and attends things semi-regularly, that person needs to grow more. If someone that has made a profession of faith and done one of the above before stopping, that person is falling away and not willing to live the Christian life. A person's growth is measured by how active they are in the church and by how much they agree with what everybody else says.

If I had to summarize my time in that church in one word, it would be exhausted.

I read this and it felt as if you were talking about me, as if you were able to read my mind. I am still attending a GC church and I'm slowly starting to see that I don't have to do all those things that you mentioned.

I was there when a leader shared that statement about being exhausted. Maybe we're talking about the same church or maybe it's a more widely taught thing than I thought. At the time that I heard it, I put it down to his lack of experience and knowledge. I don't think he meant to make people feel guilty or inadequate.

I have definitely praised people for not acting sick when they were sick and should have been resting. I have also judged a lot of people as being less of a Christian because they went to bed at a good time or they took the time to take care of themselves. I hate that I have done that and that I have probably encouraged other people to do it too.

I once questioned a good friend's judgement because she liked to read and I made her feel like she shouldn't be wasting her time reading such books. I have since apologized to her but I still can't believe that I called her out for reading Lord of the Rings.

It scares me how much I let myself be so taken up with all this so much. Before getting involved with this church, I never felt like there was a right way to life the Christian life. But as I got more involved, it seemed like I thought there was a right way and all the other ways weren't as right and I started acting that way.

I'm slowly getting back to a place where I am able to have a more accurate and biblical view of things. It's a slow process and I'm not sure whether I will continue to be a part of this church but I'm taking it one day at a time.

Wow, this sounds a lot like me and my time there.
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