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Author Topic: Faithwalkers 2010 (Or Faithwalkaz, as I like to call it)  (Read 54068 times)
MarthaH
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« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2010, 03:36:11 pm »

The messages are posted in video format. Didn't miss much with session2: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/11687875

Took a while to get started. Same old same old:
Min. 14 lukewarmness is the worst form of blasphemy
Min. 16 – Love is a commitment
Min. 17 - Commitment
Min. 20 – parents, siblings, friends don’t understand – just like Jesus’
Min. 21 – my brothers are not family
Min. 24 – Martyrdom
Min 28 – Be willing to give it all up – career etc. God will provide a job.
Min. 47 – you have the freedom, but don’t do it.
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Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2010, 03:55:12 pm »

Really. Spousal abuse ...?

I attended Faithwalkers Midwest. Neva was there too, listening to Rick. Perhaps in the recording you can't hear the levity of the comment ... Rick and the rest of the audience laughing. It was a sarcastic comment, meant to be humorous. Whether Neva was offended by what her husband said is for her and Rick to talk about; not for the board here to get so worked up as to insinuate that because Rick made a joke about his wife that he probably will end up physically, violently abusing her. Neva "under the bus" with the movement driving it? C'mon.

Now as for Tim Rude's talk not being online ... don't know why. Tim's remarks were low key. I don't attend WCCC so I don't know what a typical sermon sounds like from Tim, but his Faithwalkers talk was not nearly as strong (concerning being a disiple) than most of the others that are posted. I'm guessing there was a technical problem; don't really know.

Announced attendence of about 1800 in the Midwest; 3400 overall. What else do you want to know?

BTW, with so many of the seminars now online, and some on this board ready to listen to them all, anyone found a seminar that they feel is good; that would bless the community of Christ? There were a lot oa pastors and pastors wives that spoke this year that have not in the past, because of the three separate locations.

I think it commendable that so many speakers allow there sessions to be recorded and posted. Nearly none are  professional speakers.
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nelliepooh
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« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2010, 04:05:41 pm »

I'm glad that the messages are being posted to so that bad teaching can be addressed.  Humorous or not it demeaning to his wife to talk about her like that in front of a large group of people with out her being able to defend herself.  RW should be ashamed.
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Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2010, 04:10:17 pm »

As I mentioned in the previous post, I hope you will also commend any good teaching you hear.
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Linda
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« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2010, 04:10:28 pm »

I am the one who quoted that message. I stand by the words in my post. It is profoundly disrespectful for a pastor to publicly point out his wife's short comings during a message on forbearance. Ironically, it also demonstrates a lack of forbearance on the part of the speaker.

If the spin is going to be, "It was sarcasm, perhaps you didn't pick up on that on the tape," my response is: Humor at the expense of others is not funny. It's one thing to say, "My wife has had to live with a slob, a Scrooge, and a slacker for the last 40 years." It is an entirely different thing to say, "I have lived with a slob, Scrooge, and slacker for the past 40 years."

To say it in front of 1,800 is even worse. I'm glad the talk is down. I would like to think that someone came to their senses and realized that a person who cherishes his wife will not publicly humiliate her. Even for a laugh.

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Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #45 on: December 31, 2010, 04:16:12 pm »

I did not defend Rick's comment. Rather, the poster who jumped to allegations of domestic, physical violence and asking about abuse "running rampant" throughout the movement needed to be challenged.
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Linda
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« Reply #46 on: December 31, 2010, 04:17:40 pm »

No one suggested physical violence. Also, just curious as to why you read this forum.
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MarthaH
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« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2010, 04:23:25 pm »

I posted the link to the video. Before I had noticed it wasn't up and so I gave multiple reasons why it may not be. It is still not up on the website, but that is neither here nor there as you can watch the video.

My concern about his teaching comes as a result of someone who recently reached out to me through this forum because members of their family are involved in one of his churches and his family is beginning to notice changes in their behaviors and they are making unwise decisions about their life and career paths for the cause of the church. The comments I made reflect how people can be subtly influenced in a group setting to adopt a group think that may or may not relate to God's call on their life.

Pastor, are you aware that in Fathwalkers past, the group from WCCC has taken advantage of the "energy" at Faithwalkers and has called on people to make commitments to the church in Des Moines for life? Many of my peers went on strategic road trips following Faithwalkers so that they could surrender their dreams. You probably don't see anything wrong with that, but it happens. College students HAVE BEEN TOLD BY LEADERSHIP to not worry about their studies and to find jobs in Des Moines so that they can build the church.

Lastly, you are right in stating that his message was "not nearly as strong (concerning being a disciple) than most of the others that are posted." That also concerns me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 04:34:14 pm by MarthaH » Logged
Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #48 on: December 31, 2010, 04:24:44 pm »

Rick Whitney, at the 20 minute mark:

"It's hard to live with people. Perhaps it's a roommate, or even your spouse. Over these many years, I have lived with a very, very messy roommate. For almost 40 years, an incredibly messy roommate. Do you live with a roommate who is grumpy all the time? I do. Oh, Lord, forgive me. Who clams up and never wants to talk? I do. Do you live with a roommate who just doesn't want to seem to carry their weight? Tell me about it. Listen, I feel your pain. The problem with people is that people can be a problem sometimes."

Publicly humiliating your spouse is domestic abuse. This movement is teaching and modeling domestic abuse. There are many abusive marriages in this church. When I was attending Walnut Creek, an elder said from the pulpit, "Divorce is an easy way out."

Divorce is NOT an easy road, but nobody should tolerate domestic abuse. It is only a matter of time before it leads to physical violence.
How rampant is domestic abuse in this movement? Will they come to Neva's defense and sanction Rick publicly, or will they just leave her under the bus by herself? Sadly, the answer is pretty obvious.

I believe Lucy was insinuating that Rick domestically abused his wife with his comment; that the movement teaches and models domestic abuse; that domestic abuse automatically leads to physical abuse "it's only a matter of time." This accusation went too far, and I think it should be noted.

I am reading, Linda, because I too thought there might be some feedback here about Faithwalkers from former and/or current Great Commission people. Wanted to know what was being said.
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2010, 04:36:43 pm »

Really?  You are going to defend his comments saying he was using sarcasm???  I listened to the message and could tell no sarcasm from his statements.

Wikipedia states:

"In sarcasm, ridicule or mockery is used harshly, often crudely and contemptuously, for destructive purposes. It may be used in an indirect manner, and have the form of irony, as in “What a fine musician you turned out to be!” or it may be used in the form of a direct statement, “You couldn't play one piece correctly if you had two assistants.” The distinctive quality of sarcasm is present in the spoken word and manifested chiefly by vocal inflection...

Hostile, critical comments may be expressed in an ironic way, such as saying "don't work too hard" to a lazy worker. The use of irony introduces an element of humour which may make the criticism seem more polite and less aggressive. Sarcasm can frequently be unnoticed in print form, often times requiring the inflection or tone of voice to indicate the quip."


I can tell that the pastors as usual are defending his pastors comments (big surprise!) as they always do.  There is no accountability for these pastors!



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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2010, 04:39:30 pm »

I did not defend Rick's comment. Rather, the poster who jumped to allegations of domestic, physical violence and asking about abuse "running rampant" throughout the movement needed to be challenged.

As a pastor who probably counsels married couples, I'm surprised that you would assume "domestic abuse" would mean physical violence.  Also, it's true that verbal abuse can often lead to physical violence, but no one accused Rick of doing that.  Ever.   In a sermon by Mark Darling YEARS ago, I remember him saying how evil sarcasm is and how it "cuts like a knife".  It's not a joke to say someone is grumpy all the time and has been for 40 years, or that someone is a total slob.

Neva has lovingly typed out all of Rick's messages and talks on GCNWDads, she has birthed (how many, 8?) children, raised them (I would say quite well, minus the GC stuff) to adulthood, homeschooled all of them, no doubt cooked, cleaned, all the while guarding the home fort while Rick travels around giving parenting talks and dragging up their roots to plant churches in god-forsaken lands.  Honestly?  I think Neva is a saint and always have.  I think Rick is a guy that means well, but has gotten carried away in the idealism of his mind (manly men, and Normandy, and cowboys, and soldiers, loyalty, yadda yadda).   And I didn't find it humorous, what he said.

Also, I am quite aware that GC pastors are not professional speakers.  This has come up before.  Seminary training helps you with public speaking!  These men need to learn how to say what they mean to say, in ways that are truthful, kind, and respectful of the platform they believe God has given them.

Maybe Rick had an off day.  Maybe Rick is getting old and a bit senile.  Maybe he's not got the best social skills.  I don't know.  I don't think he's probably a mean guy at heart.  But I do think his bar is high-- too high.  And he should be kissing Neva's feet, because she has lived to be his helpmeet (whether or not I agree with her views) and has praised him repeatedly in all of her talks.  

I'm glad they took the talk down.  I hope it was his idea.  I hope she took it lightly and with a grain of salt.  I hope that they have a happy marriage.  

I think most of us here wish all of the leaders and members of GC happiness and blessings.   As we've said before, we LOVE the people of GC.  That said, people we love can make grave mistakes.  False, unthought out, careless teaching is bad and for the level of experience these men have, pretty inexcusable.  Forgiveable, of course, but surprising.  

I do sometimes think the level of intensity, overspeaking, zeal, paranoia, delusions of grandeur these men display could be indicative of some deeper issues that probably could stand to be addressed through counseling, mentoring (outside the movement), and a nice, long vacation.



« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 04:42:42 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2010, 04:43:54 pm »

I respect and appreciate your reading this forum.

It would be missing the point to move this discussion away from Mr. Whitney's words and turn this thread into a critique of LucyB's comment. This is an Internet forum. Hundreds of people post here. No one single person represents the group.

I don't think anyone here has ever said that everything about GC is bad. Obviously, the reason many of us put up with bad teaching for so many years was because we "overlooked" the bad teaching because of the good. Unfortunately, hundreds of people have been harmed spiritually by the bad teaching. The point of this forum is to address the bad teaching.

My opinion on this portion of the talk is that it is a violation of Ephesians 5. Husbands are to cherish and sacrifice for their wives. They are to be Christ to their wives. They are not to "build a spirit of sacrifice" in their wives. They are to make the sacrifice. Again, GC twists Scripture.

Article #46. http://www.gcnwdads.com/pages/articles.html
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Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2010, 04:51:44 pm »

Linda and Agatha, thank you. I would not have pursued Lucy's comment as I did if I didn't think she had gone too far. I don't have anything more to say about that.

Domestic abuse -- mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, is all bad. It is of the sinful nature.
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nelliepooh
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« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2010, 04:59:13 pm »

As I mentioned in the previous post, I hope you will also commend any good teaching you hear.
I honestly cannot listen to the messages long enough to hear any good teaching because the messages get so off topic and change.  One thing I can say is the Bible verses are quoted correctly but sometimes the interpretations are wrong and sometimes that leads to the message being wrong and we are here because this happens a lot and we are concerned what messages are being told to those that attend this conference.  I would like to hear if he seeks forgiveness for his comments, he needs to admit it was wrong to say that about his wife and apologize.  
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2010, 05:16:05 pm »

The teaching has been the same as it has been for over 20 years!  Full of shame based messages.  They induce guilt not love of God.  There is no inspiration to do the right thing.  Seems they are trying to build an army not a congregation of worshippers. 

The emphasis always is on what we should be doing -- not on the character of God.  Even our relationship with God seems to be on a legalistic basis. 
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Seeing Clearly
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« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2010, 05:48:12 pm »

I wonder if Faithwalking Pastor will ever agree that what RW said was wrong, sarcasm or not?
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Linda
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« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2010, 06:32:19 pm »

Quote from: Faithwalking Pastor
I think it commendable that so many speakers allow there sessions to be recorded and posted. Nearly none are professional speakers.
Aren't pretty much all of the Faithwalkers speakers paid pastors/teachers? In what sense, then, are they not professional speakers?

Also, do you have any idea why Faithwalkers speakers are never non-GC people?

A few years ago, I attended a Desiring God Conference. In addition to John Piper, I heard R. C. Sproul, Voddie Baucham, Don Carson, Tim Keller, and the ever-popular Mark Driscoll. Men from different backgrounds & different denominations, with different views on topics like church government and baptism. Why do you suppose GC only allows GC leaders to speak at conferences?

It was assumed that all the Desiring God Conference talks would be available online. These men "own" their words. Public scrutiny of messages is a good thing. It helps keep false teaching from taking hold in a church. Challenging bad teaching is something that everyone who cares about the Gospel should do.

If a pastor teaches something that is wrong, it is not persecution to challenge him. It is the duty of every believer.
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Faithwalking Pastor
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« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2010, 10:33:05 pm »

Seeing Clearly -- I would not have made that comment about my own wife, true or not, as it would not be encouraging to her.

Wasted -- You are correct, that many messages are about our response to God's love for us. My opinion -- I would say that is the primary inspiration for our works -- a love response to what God has done for us. We all agree that our works do not gain God's grace nor his favor. But our efforts to love others is at the core of Jesus' teaching, and James reminds us to love not just with words, but with actions.

Linda -- greater than half of the seminar speakers are not full-time pastors, but rather, elders who work fulltime jobs outside the church. Even a fulltime pastor may not be a gifted public speaker (the NT doesn't specify that a pastor must be a good speaker). All the main sessions speakers this year were fulltime men. If that mean's they are professional speakers because they are paid to publicly teach, OK. Faithwalkers may benefit from men of other denominations/fellowships speaking.
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wastedyearsthere
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« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2011, 08:02:10 am »

But I think seminary training would benefit these "untrained" men.  They are leading people and are quoting verses out of context.  They are misleading the congregation (IMO). 

I've heard Rick Whitney talk about humbleness and being open to correction.  Yet, that has not been the experience of mine nor most on this blog.  That is one of the reason we left!  I'm waiting to hear if Rick apologizes about his comments about his lovely wife. 
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Linda
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« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2011, 09:22:17 am »

I understand that many of the speakers for the seminars were volunteers, but I thought that when the "professional speaker" comment was made, it was in a reference to Rick Whitney dissing his wife and the implied excuse was, "Give him a break, he is not a trained speaker." The reason that I wanted to challenge that statement is that I've heard that talking point before.

Just before we left our GC church, in fact the message that eventually lead to our departure, was a gathering of all the ECC churches. It was called "Fanning the Flame". In that talk, Mark Darling told the gathered 1,000 or so fellow church members that we were his (Mark Darling's) bride. (And that we were borrowing the auditorium of another man's bride!) He also said that leaving your local church was the equivalent of divorcing your spouse. Oh, and that we shouldn't complain about our bride (apparently RW didn't get that memo).

The next day, we went to one of our pastors (MD was not the pastor at our location). Our pastor said, "Yeah, that didn't set right with me, either." He said that he would get back to us. When he did, the reason was something like this. "Mark, is a gifted evangelist. Sometimes he gets carried away and says things he doesn't mean." Wow.

GC is big on saying that training doesn't matter. They even go as far as to say that knowledge (after all, it puffs up) and theology are not what they look for in a leader. They look for, let's say it together, everyone...CHARACTER. Unfortunately, that assessment of the qualifications for a leader is not Biblical. Paul teaches that sound theology IS, in fact, a requirement for an elder. A really nice guy, teaching unsound doctrine is a very bad thing.
Quote from: Titus 1:4,5
He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 09:24:51 am by Linda » Logged

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