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Author Topic: My understanding of the Great (C)ommission:  (Read 36497 times)
Clear
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2018, 09:03:02 am »

Quote
7 Ė Married couples would have their nights planned as well.  Daily bible and religious functions were the rule. Family time and time with non GCx people was limited by this scheduling. Only married people were allowed to have a ďdate nightĒ.  Single people had a responsibility to pray daily and to avoid the ďsins of the fleshĒ.  Dating was not permitted unless it was OKíd by a church leader and only within the members of the cult.  Dating was only for the purpose of marriage.  The rules of dating were quite strict.  Sex was saved for marriage so that the men in the group would have virgins as wives.  Flirting with members of the opposite sex was prohibited unless the couple had permission to date.  Personally intrusive rules were given for things to do while dating.  Even sex positions were discussed by church leaders to members of the flock.

Opening up this thread again.

Actually, I heard personally from a credible source that this was happening in some (not all) ECC small groups and couples had to give reports on their sex lives. Even intimate details of honeymoon activities were shared with the small group and tips were given. Is this true?

Anyone care to share what they know?



Above you quoted someone that includes a statement that sex was saved for marriage so the men would have virgins as wives.  And you take this as a credible quote or person?   If so your lack of discernment is leaving me dumbfounded.
  
Linda, this new post is gossip in it's purest form.   "I heard from a credible source that this was happening...."  And anyone can see your great skills at attempting to stir the pot.  

I understood Linda to be specifically referring to the part she underlined. It was echoing what another person had told her. Some would find this inappropriate.  The fact that it is part of the church culture is demonstated with this message given at The Rock:

"Iím going to talk about bedroom clothing. Iím going to talk about what positions are best for sex. Iím going to blow your mind. I promise you, if you come to this whole thing, youíre going to gain some insights youíve never had before whether your married or single...

...And in fact what typically happens in marriage and I really donít mean this to be offensive I really donít. Do you know in a recent study I know this is going to sound tacky and I know youíre not going to believe me the number one reason that men said they were afraid of commitment is because they were afraid if they committed and married a girl sheíd let herself go and become fat and overweight yep thatís the truth thatís what theyíre really thinking you know why because thatís almost all you see everywhere well look at me and Kathy and I mean that with all humility. We really enjoy each otherís bodies and we take care of them because I am not going to be like the majority of the rest of America. I am not."

Link:
http://www.evergreenchurchmedia.com/uploads/audio/2014-1-3-rock-service.mp3
 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 09:04:49 am by Clear » Logged
araignee19
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« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2018, 10:12:19 am »

The link from Clear seems to be broken now. Or the talk removed. Anyone else having this problem?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 10:25:57 am by araignee19 » Logged
Clear
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« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2018, 10:14:49 am »

It must have been taken down. I copied it from an older post.
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2018, 10:43:08 am »

Quote
7 Ė Married couples would have their nights planned as well.  Daily bible and religious functions were the rule. Family time and time with non GCx people was limited by this scheduling. Only married people were allowed to have a ďdate nightĒ.  Single people had a responsibility to pray daily and to avoid the ďsins of the fleshĒ.  Dating was not permitted unless it was OKíd by a church leader and only within the members of the cult.  Dating was only for the purpose of marriage.  The rules of dating were quite strict.  Sex was saved for marriage so that the men in the group would have virgins as wives.  Flirting with members of the opposite sex was prohibited unless the couple had permission to date.  Personally intrusive rules were given for things to do while dating.  Even sex positions were discussed by church leaders to members of the flock.

Opening up this thread again.

Actually, I heard personally from a credible source that this was happening in some (not all) ECC small groups and couples had to give reports on their sex lives. Even intimate details of honeymoon activities were shared with the small group and tips were given. Is this true?

Anyone care to share what they know?



Above you quoted someone that includes a statement that sex was saved for marriage so the men would have virgins as wives.  And you take this as a credible quote or person?   If so your lack of discernment is leaving me dumbfounded.
  
Linda, this new post is gossip in it's purest form.   "I heard from a credible source that this was happening...."  And anyone can see your great skills at attempting to stir the pot.  

I understood Linda to be specifically referring to the part she underlined. It was echoing what another person had told her. Some would find this inappropriate.  The fact that it is part of the church culture is demonstated with this message given at The Rock:

"Iím going to talk about bedroom clothing. Iím going to talk about what positions are best for sex. Iím going to blow your mind. I promise you, if you come to this whole thing, youíre going to gain some insights youíve never had before whether your married or single...

...And in fact what typically happens in marriage and I really donít mean this to be offensive I really donít. Do you know in a recent study I know this is going to sound tacky and I know youíre not going to believe me the number one reason that men said they were afraid of commitment is because they were afraid if they committed and married a girl sheíd let herself go and become fat and overweight yep thatís the truth thatís what theyíre really thinking you know why because thatís almost all you see everywhere well look at me and Kathy and I mean that with all humility. We really enjoy each otherís bodies and we take care of them because I am not going to be like the majority of the rest of America. I am not."

Link:
http://www.evergreenchurchmedia.com/uploads/audio/2014-1-3-rock-service.mp3
 


But how can someone take this person's words in one matter, but in the same breath they make such a blatantly false statement that singles are encouraged to save sex for marriage so the men can have virgin wives. Shocked  There is a significant lack of discernment in judging ones credibility, and some proof that people can take a little tidbit here and and little tidbit there to bring validations their opinions.  This was my point.  It is ridiculous.  

"this is part of church culture"....so you are saying this is part of the everyday at church?  This is how you are going to show that the pastors, or in particular MD, is some sexual deviant?  And boldly so that they preach about their sexual deviancy in conferences for marrieds and singles? But wait,  I thought they were all about cover ups?  This is funny.  So yep, they talk about sex sometimes, so does the bible.  It is kind of a big deal.   Many within the church come from very dysfunctional pasts, and the pastors realize this, and want to talk about some issues that should be heard from a Godly perspective, and not the world's perspective, this is valuable.  But people will take words and twist them  to try to make it fit into a mold that will validate their perceptions.  
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 10:46:01 am by Godtrumpsall » Logged
Clear
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2018, 11:17:22 am »


But how can someone take this person's words in one matter, where in the same breath they make such a blatantly false statement that singles are encouraged to save sex for marriage so the men can have virgin wives.   There is a significant lack of discernment in judging ones credibility, and some proof that people can take a little tidbit here and and little tidbit there to bring validations their opinions.  This was my point.  It is ridiculous.  The first part of the statement Linda quoted would be viewed by most conservative Christians as being stated by someone who didn't have a biblical view of sex.  The statement Linda underlined was just a retelling of something that happened.  Linda knew of it happening from others and then asked if it was true.  One does not have to take an all or nothing approach to listening to a source.

"this is part of church culture"....so you are saying this is part of the everyday at church? Something does not have to happen daily to be a part of the culture  This is how you are going to show that the pastors, or in particular MD, is some sexual deviant?  Why do you assume I think anything about Mark?  I never spoke to that topic.And boldly so that they preach about their sexual deviancy in conferences for marrieds and singles? All I did was quote his own words.  I did not comment on them. You don't know what I think about any of this. I was simply showing that it is a topic covered at a certain level of detail.But wait,  I thought they were all about cover ups?  It might be hard to keep track of people as individuals on a forum, but we still all are. I'd prefer not to be lumped in with other people's comments. I haven't accused anyone of a cover up This is funny.  So yep, they talk about sex sometimes, so does the bible.  It is kind of a big deal.   Many within the church come from very dysfunctional pasts, and the pastors realize this, and want to talk about some issues that should be heard from a Godly perspective, and not the world's perspective, this is valuable.  But people will take words and twist them  to try to make it fit into a mold that will validate their perceptions. I only quoted. I did not twist. And I have not communicated any of my opinions other than what I thought Linda was saying.
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Linda
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2018, 11:23:54 am »

Still working through this thread. I was out having coffee with one of my secret cyber friends.

Quote from: GTA
Linda, this new post is gossip in it's purest form.   "I heard from a credible source that this was happening...."

Actually, this isn't a rumor and it does relate to the topic at hand. A friend informed me that she and her husband had, on a regular, basis shared intimate details about their sex life as part of their small group.
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Linda
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2018, 11:42:50 am »

Quote from: MD
"Iím going to talk about bedroom clothing. Iím going to talk about what positions are best for sex. Iím going to blow your mind. I promise you, if you come to this whole thing, youíre going to gain some insights youíve never had before whether your married or single...

...And in fact what typically happens in marriage and I really donít mean this to be offensive I really donít. Do you know in a recent study I know this is going to sound tacky and I know youíre not going to believe me the number one reason that men said they were afraid of commitment is because they were afraid if they committed and married a girl sheíd let herself go and become fat and overweight yep thatís the truth thatís what theyíre really thinking you know why because thatís almost all you see everywhere well look at me and Kathy and I mean that with all humility. We really enjoy each otherís bodies and we take care of them because I am not going to be like the majority of the rest of America. I am not."

I actually listened to that series a few years ago. The part about positions was said to be provocative. The positions as I recall were things like "on your knees in prayer", or "standing by the sink doing dishes" (made that up, but all positions of service).

The part about being fat and sex is right out of the Mark Driscoll playbook.

Amusing the message is no longer there.

I've learned to use the download key.
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Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2018, 11:46:23 am »

Still working through this thread. I was out having coffee with one of my secret cyber friends.

Quote from: GTA
Linda, this new post is gossip in it's purest form.   "I heard from a credible source that this was happening...."

Actually, this isn't a rumor and it does relate to the topic at hand. A friend informed me that she and her husband had, on a regular, basis shared intimate details about their sex life as part of their small group.

What was the topic or focus of the group?  Were they forced to share information if this is something that made them uncomfortable?  Was it something that made them uncomfortable?  Was it something they did not watn to participate in?   Was the group considered a safe space where intimate marriage issues could be discussed freely?  Were you in the group?  Do you have first hand knowledge, or is this all gossip of "well I heard this from so and so...."  How does this have any relevance?  Does this information make the church a cult?  What is your point, what are you trying to prove?  These are not rhetorical questions, in case you were wondering.  
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Linda
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2018, 11:59:48 am »

Quote from: GTA
Linda did not ask this person specifically about this happening in small groups...she used this quote as an opening to start a new conversation pulling up an old thread, asking to see if anyone could share their stories.

Last week, I stumbled upon this old thread. I remembered it today when Rypick indicated that he loved my husband's blog post. You know, the blog post that ECC pastors demanded my husband take down A YEAR AFTER WE HAD REMOVED OUR MEMBERSHIP FROM THE CHURCH. That blog post.

Anywho, after I posted that link, I got a private message from someone (not clear) telling me to check out the link 5 below my husband's post. Clear caught it and posted it. Here it is.

"The items mentioned in the original post may be worded a little bit stronger than some folks are used to.  But, I have not seen anyone clearly refute any of it. In fact, some recent posts even add more validity to it. Mark Darling seems to like to use the "sex sells" part of the original Gcx doctrine.   Why is mark STILL publicly bragging (after a few years) about his talk with the woman who disclosed her personal sex life to him."

After reading that, I was trying to remember what thread this was discussed on (I think I can find it). I thought I'd read the entire thread and the line that I underlined about positions stuck out because in recent weeks someone told me about their small group experience in discussing personal intimate matters between husbands and wives in a group setting.

Then, I enjoyed a lengthy coffee break with my secret cyber friend and came back to try to process this thread.

I will not speak for people in that small group. I know some of their names. I will not tell their stories. They can tell those stories if and when the wish.

Quote from: GTA
What was the topic or focus of the group?  Were they forced to share information if this is something that made them uncomfortable?  Was it something that made them uncomfortable?  Was it something they did not watn to participate in?   Was the group considered a safe space where intimate marriage issues could be discussed freely?  Were you in the group?  Do you have first hand knowledge, or is this all gossip of "well I heard this from so and so...."  How does this have any relevance?  Does this information make the church a cult?  What is your point, what are you trying to prove?  These are not rhetorical questions, in case you were wondering.
It is never appropriate to discuss personal intimate matters between a husband and wife in a group setting. Ever.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 07:18:52 pm by Linda » Logged

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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2018, 12:03:40 pm »

Sick, this kind of small group discussion.

I don't care how dysfunctional anybody's background is, they are not going to be helped by sitting in a small group sharing private, intimate stuff that belong only in the bedroom with husband and wife.  I am sure everyone felt pretty uncomfortable, at least when they thought about it later.  I am sure glad I never participated in a small group like that, and feel bad for anyone who was there and thought they needed to share what should be completely private information.

My husband was given birth control advice by Mark Darling.  He thought we had enough kids already and that we would be more effective for the gospel if we didn't traipse into church with too many kids and always that blasted diaper bag slung over my shoulder.  Bad testimony.  I did not appreciate this intrusive advice, by the way. It was totally none of his business.
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Clear
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« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2018, 12:06:07 pm »


But how can someone take this person's words in one matter, where in the same breath they make such a blatantly false statement that singles are encouraged to save sex for marriage so the men can have virgin wives.   There is a significant lack of discernment in judging ones credibility, and some proof that people can take a little tidbit here and and little tidbit there to bring validations their opinions.  This was my point.  It is ridiculous.  The first part of the statement Linda quoted would be viewed by most conservative Christians as being stated by someone who didn't have a biblical view of sex.  The statement Linda underlined was just a retelling of something that happened.  Linda knew of it happening from others and then asked if it was true.  One does not have to take an all or nothing approach to listening to a source.

"this is part of church culture"....so you are saying this is part of the everyday at church? Something does not have to happen daily to be a part of the culture  This is how you are going to show that the pastors, or in particular MD, is some sexual deviant?  Why do you assume I think anything about Mark?  I never spoke to that topic.And boldly so that they preach about their sexual deviancy in conferences for marrieds and singles? All I did was quote his own words.  I did not comment on them. You don't know what I think about any of this. I was simply showing that it is a topic covered at a certain level of detail.But wait,  I thought they were all about cover ups?  It might be hard to keep track of people as individuals on a forum, but we still all are. I'd prefer not to be lumped in with other people's comments. I haven't accused anyone of a cover up This is funny.  So yep, they talk about sex sometimes, so does the bible.  It is kind of a big deal.   Many within the church come from very dysfunctional pasts, and the pastors realize this, and want to talk about some issues that should be heard from a Godly perspective, and not the world's perspective, this is valuable.  But people will take words and twist them  to try to make it fit into a mold that will validate their perceptions. I only quoted. I did not twist. And I have not communicated any of my opinions other than what I thought Linda was saying.

I agree you did not specifically state MD name, or the situation at hand with MD and ECC pastors.  So it is just a coincidence that you are discussing this topic, and not referencing the very much talked about and discussed topic on this forum as of the past 2 months?  

Linda did not ask this person specifically about this happening in small groups...she used this quote as an opening to start a new conversation pulling up an old thread, asking to see if anyone could share their stories.  And yes, one should take an all or nothing approach in listening to a source...one should be able to discern a person's credibility, and their character from what they say, what they have written.  It is not wise to take one statement because it falls in line with what you perceive to be true, but ignore other statements within the same breath that would bring into question said person's credibility.  

What I'm speaking to is just the post I'm speaking to.  You shouldn't assume I have other things I'm refering to. i have been following what's been going on the past few months, but you shouldn't assume my opinion or motives because I posted about this. I understand it is hard not to, but you truly don't know what they are.

I understood Linda to be asking about small groups.  That is what is the context is in the sentence before she asks for stories..

I guess I disagree (for this example of a source) that just because someone has a wrong view of the bible doesn't mean they would say something happened that didn't.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 12:10:18 pm by Clear » Logged
Godtrumpsall
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2018, 12:14:53 pm »

Sick, this kind of small group discussion.

I don't care how dysfunctional anybody's background is, they are not going to be helped by sitting in a small group sharing private, intimate stuff that belong only in the bedroom with husband and wife.  I am sure everyone felt pretty uncomfortable, at least when they thought about it later.  I am sure glad I never participated in a small group like that, and feel bad for anyone who was there and thought they needed to share what should be completely private information.

My husband was given birth control advice by Mark Darling.  He thought we had enough kids already and that we would be more effective for the gospel if we didn't traipse into church with too many kids and always that blasted diaper bag slung over my shoulder.  Bad testimony.  I did not appreciate this intrusive advice, by the way. It was totally none of his business.

Again, all speculation based on a bit of gossip shared here, you have no idea the context of the group, was it one small group session, was all small group sessions?  Were they following a study guide or a book to guide their conversations, was it God honoring, were they doing a book study...maybe the Song of Solomon?  You know nothing, and look what you have turned it into.  Gossip is a dangerous weapon of the enemy.

And is that exactly how Mark explained to you guys why you should not have more kids?   Really?  Did you share with Mark that you felt his advice was intrusive, did you have a constructive conversation about this with him? 
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Linda
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2018, 12:18:23 pm »

To be clear. The line I underlined what what caught my eye and was what I was referring to. The reason it caught my eye was because someone had recently told me of inappropriate discussions about sex happening in their small group.
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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2018, 12:23:09 pm »

Quote from: GTA
Again, all speculation based on a bit of gossip shared here, you have no idea the context of the group, was it one small group session, was all small group sessions?
So, how many small group sessions would it be okay to have every couple in the group tell how many times they had sex the previous week. One? Two? Ten?  What would a good context for that be? There are some things that cannot be defended. Sharing information like that is inappropriate. Always.
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2018, 12:31:08 pm »

Quote from: GTA
Again, all speculation based on a bit of gossip shared here, you have no idea the context of the group, was it one small group session, was all small group sessions?
So, how many small group sessions would it be okay to have every couple in the group tell how many times they had sex the previous week. One? Two? Ten?  What would a good context for that be? There are some things that cannot be defended. Sharing information like that is inappropriate. Always.

it is not, it really depends on the context of the group....and you have no idea what that was, and what the purpose of the group was, what they were studying.  You know nothing and make a statement that it is never appropriate.  And now you say that they specifically all shared how many times they had sex in a week...is this what you heard specifically or are you guessing this is what was discussed?  Do you see the problem with this?  Do you see how you are imposing your opinion in saying with all certainty that this is NEVER okay, NEVER appropriate when you don't know any of the specific details, except something one person said to you.  But now with this little bit of information that you do not know for certain is factual, you are able to make a blanket statement that inappropriate talks about sex were happening in small groups. 
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2018, 12:37:02 pm »

GTA,

Yes, exactly how I remember it being relayed by my husband,

and No, I did not ever wish to have a Constructive Conversation about something that was

absolutely none of his business.
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Linda
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« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2018, 12:37:52 pm »

Quote from: GTA
You know nothing and make a statement that it is never appropriate.

You have no idea what I know.

And, I stand by my statement that it is NEVER appropriate.
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« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2018, 12:53:48 pm »

GTA,

Yes, exactly how I remember it being relayed by my husband,

and No, I did not ever wish to have a Constructive Conversation about something that was

absolutely none of his business.
So MD told your husband it is a bad testimony to God to have all your kids in tow at church and a wife with a diaper bag always on her shoulder?
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« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2018, 01:00:39 pm »

Yes, GTA, yes.

I suppose now you think I am the problem.

God ahead and think that. 

I am not interested in being interrogated over it, like I am lying.
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« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2018, 01:09:52 pm »

Last week, I stumbled upon this old thread. I remembered it today when Rypick indicated that he loved my husband's blog post.

Ha, ha! Whoa, hang on now. I believe what I said was I APPRECIATED his blog post. Don't put words in my mouth.
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