Welcome to De-Commissioned, a place for former members of the Great Commission movement (aka GCM, GCC, GCAC, GCI, the Blitz) to discuss problems they've experienced in the association's practices and theology.

You may read and post, but some features are restricted to registered members. Please consider registering to gain full access! Registration is free and only takes a few moments to complete.
De-Commissioned Forum
November 27, 2021, 03:59:15 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
  Home   Forum   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Do you know anything about these colleges?  (Read 92319 times)
theresearchpersona
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 418



« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2009, 06:51:22 pm »

Thank you! I have been doing some research and wanted to know if anyone had any personal experiences with the GCl group at UF

Just to make very clear, I haven't personal experience with H20, Gator, or Seminole C.L., but did get to watch (and to participate a little) in the Wikipedia stuff. Those others might be the people to contact.
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 06:07:53 pm »

Meedell,

Thanks for your comments.

While I don't know much about the specifics of GCL, I know it is affiliated with Great Commission Churches and therefore, I believe your concerns are warranted.

One of the most difficult aspects of Great Commission is that on the surface it looks wonderful. What Christian would ever argue with the idea of being totally sold out for God for the rest of their life? And, GC offers ample opportunity to be sold out.

The problem with GC churches is that there is "something more" going on. The commitment isn't just to God and His Church. It's to Great Commission. For life. And, that means OBEYING YOUR LEADERS AS THEY DIRECT YOU IN ALL MATTERS. (School, career, marriage, money...)

It is disguised in the teaching of the idea that we should love fellow believers and then moves from there into teaching that that means total commitment to Great Commission FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. This and the teaching on obedience to leaders is the point at which things take a very sour turn.

You might want to listen to the teaching on commitment to Great Commission for life from the Faithwalkers conference. It is available on the GCC web page and, in fact, as Rick Whitney delivers the message, I believe he even suggests that college aged students should listen to their pastors and not their parents in matters of commitment for life. Very scary stuff.

I am 54 years old. I attended a GC church for 10 years (starting at age 40, I'm embarrassed to say). We and our 5 children were heavily involved. It was when our 17 year old was away at a conference and asked to make a commitment for life to our GC church that things came to a head.

We have a lot of friends and know many people in our town so are not hurting for friendships and Christian support. However, since leaving our GC church, I can pretty much say we have one (possibly two) families from our church that have remained friends with us since our departure. Leaving GC means leaving most of your GC friends.

Should your son decide to leave, he will be leaving his social network. Any friends from GC will either shun him or not have time for him due to their "church" commitments. Honestly, I'm not even sure that GC is a better choice than "Greek" live. It's probably easier to leave a fraternity than GC.

I feel for you and recommend reading everything you can read about Great Commission and it's history. Ask your son to do the same. Praise God that your son loves the Lord. I pray that he will be able to cling to what is good and get away from that which binds.

God bless you.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:14:44 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
AgathaL'Orange
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1182



« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2009, 08:03:56 pm »

Ditto to Linda. 
Logged

Glad to be free.
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 09:28:44 pm »

This makes me so sad. I am so sorry for you and your son.

One thing that I have come to believe about GC is that there is a need for people to have their eyes opened spiritually to what is "off" about the group. Therefore, prayer is a big part of the solution.

I tended to think that if I just "explained" the problem, people would understand. So, we started with the GC leaders and were met with blank stares. They really don't get what is wrong with their system.

We tried again and again to explain it. Different angles, different pastors, different methods. The pastors really believe that we were trying to destroy their church. We were not. We were trying to help them. They couldn't see it. Still can't.

In all fairness, many of the leaders have BIG testimonies. Sex, drugs, etc.
They came upon GC and were genuinely led to the Lord and forgiven of much. Unfortunately, because of this, they feel that they owe their salvation to the group. A pastor's wife even called me begging me to ask my husband to remove a post on his blog about why we left. She said, "My husband is a different man because of Evergreen." Really, she said that. I answered, "Your husband is a different man because of what the Lord has done." I'm really not sure that GC leaders see a difference.

Again, I am so sorry. It sounds like your son really loves the Lord. That is a wonderful thing and I pray that nothing, no group, or person, or church, would come between him and Jesus Christ.

Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
anonymoustoday
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 34



« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2009, 08:42:04 am »

My advice may win no popularity contests, nor is it guaranteed to be effective, but is is practical:

1) appeal to your son, tell him everything that concerns you about GC (sounds like you did this)
2) reaffirm your love for God
3) reaffirm your love for your son
4) as his parents, "order" him to discontinue associating with GC until his graduation or until his grades are back to an A average (wait for his reaction and reassure him of 2 and 3)

This is a hard thing to do.  If he rebels, he could turn against you.  However, it also holds out hope to him while shutting no permanent doors, and it gives you an action plan to give him additional information he might not have been open to otherwise.

Now, an important step:
While he is away from GC temporarily, tell him to watch the Jim McCotter video at http://gcxweb.org/Misc/ApostleshipVideo/Default.aspx
and then tell him to read the rebuttal to it at http://thefaithfulword.org/apostlepageone.html

After he has done those two things, ask him to reconnect with his GC leadership only for the purpose of finding out when his GC leaders rebuked Jim McCotter for this dreadful doctrine video, and to ask why it was not included in the 1991 apology letter, and to inquire as to what they think of Jim McCotter today?  Have him report back to you all that he learns.

Warning:  if you do this and his grades get back to an A average, you may need to let him conintue his association wth GC.  However, if he really watches the Jim video and reads the rebuttal of Jim's video, he should have his eyes wide open afresh, and if the Lord wills, he will walk away on his own in short order.

God's best to you.
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 06:00:16 pm »

I agree with anonymoustoday. One other thing. Who is funding your sons college education? Do you have to fill out any paperwork for any financing? Removing any financial help he is getting from you while his grades are slipping would be one way to get your son's attention. Of course, it would be viewed as "persecution" by the group.

Great Commission wants a lifetime commitment. They teach lifetime commitment. TO THEM. Here is what one of their national board members taught at Faithwalkers 2008 last December.

Quote from: Rick Whitney Faithwalkers 2008 talk on Commitment for life to the local church
Look, I recognize you can find good churches like you can find a good meal. You might even find a better church down the street. It's kind of like a meal, you find a good meal, or even a better meal down the street, but there's just something about eating supper at home with your own family. There's a joy and a fulfillment that cannot be experienced anywhere else.

God wants loyalty, God wants us committed to our home church and to its people, and I mean this, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE...

...You say, "Well, what do you mean? I'm gonna be stuck in this church for the rest of my life?" Stay with us. You will grow and learn and you will experience--I'm gonna say this again--God's blessing and glory and you will be involved in heroic enterprises and you will be involved in church planting and travel and visiting and a lot of us here will be around the world in the years to come.

You're never stuck with God, my goodness, but you first need someone or something to which you must be loyal if you're ever going to reach your potential.

A side point, just a quick one and I have to say this for parents and younger men and women here. A heart of commitment and loyalty to your fellow believer is something that only adults can offer God. Children offer their commitment and loyalty to their parents. A 16 year old needs to follow their parents. Rightly so.

But listen, this is my transition. But a 20 year old is asked by God to commit to Him first. It's not a throw away verse when our Lord said, "He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me." That's not a throw away verse with God and his audience was 20 years old. 21, 22, 23.

Listen to me Christian. I love God, but I can get between God and my children--even with the best of intentions. I can hinder my son's or my daughter's own commitment to their Savior. I can get in the way. I can easily be interference between them and God and I don't want to be, but I can be interference. Sometimes with the best of intentions. Even Christian parents can be afraid for our kids and keep them from really standing on their own. Don't go down that road of fear parent...

...There will be a time, even in Great Commission where 20 year olds and 21 year olds and 22 year olds will stand and say, "Dad, I love you, but I'm convinced of this, you've got to believe this...I believe that one of the single biggest decisions we will make as a Christian that will determine our success as a believer is whether we will commit to our brothers and sisters for life. Almost every major life lesson I have ever learned as a Christian was taught to me in my local church. It is in community that our life and our mission are worked out. And itís in our local church where we can achieve greatness...
My points.

1. The part about minor children being under the authority of their parents was recently added. In 2005, at an HSLT in Colorado, our 17 year old daughter was asked to make a lifetime commitment to her local GC church. Parents were unaware this was being asked. It caused the "kerfuffle" that lead to our immediate departure from our GC church, Evergreen. (Of course, the same pastor had recently called the local church his--the pastor's--bride, so our confidence in their theology was already on shaky ground). Since then, they now seem to add the "minors are under the authority of their parents" disclaimer, but may I point out, they NEVER corrected the original teaching. Never wrote the students who attended that HSLT to inform them that Mr. Darling has misspoken, and never even bothered to take the teaching off the web. Again, the it's the old "apologize", but don't change trick. I'm rather sick of it. Can you tell?!

2. Note how Whitney implies that commitment to the group for life is the same thing as commitment to God for life. My thought is, how dare a pastor get between a student and God by suggesting that he/she make a commitment to a specific church for life. How could a pastor ever know what a 20 year old should be doing in even 5 years, let alone FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

3. I will pray that your son will see that this organization has a history of deception. It has a history of coming between students and parents. It has a history of screwing up lives. It has a history of not being committed to the real church as witnessed by all the true believers who have been excommunicated and shunned over the years because they were brave enough to speak the truth. What kind of commitment has GC demonstrated over the years when their motto has been "We will be loyal to you as long as you are loyal to us and do everything we say cuz we're your leaders because we were recognized by someone who was recognized by someone who was recognized by Jim McCotter who recognized himself as a self appointed apostle?" The "commitment" is one way. From the bottom up.

The leaders are unwilling to apologize and change. They are blind guides preoccupied with each other. Shepherds loving other shepherds, but not really caring all that much about the sheep. A "Band of Brothers" loyal to EACH OTHER first and foremost. They need prayer too.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 06:08:59 pm by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2009, 09:15:48 am »

Quote from: RW @Faithwalkers 2008
It is in community that our life and our mission are worked out. And itís in our local church where we can achieve greatness.
Here's an observation that should be glaringly obvious to anyone listening to that commitment talk. Since when should it be our objective in life to achieve greatness? That should be a big red flag. We're supposed to let everyone know how great God is.

Quote from: RW @ FW 2008
A heart of commitment and loyalty to your fellow believer is something that only adults can offer God. Children offer their commitment and loyalty to their parents. A 16 year old needs to follow their parents. Rightly so. But a 20 year old is asked by God to commit to Him first. It's not a throw away verse when our Lord said, "He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me." That's not a throw away verse with God and his audience was 20 years old. 21, 22, 23.
This statement is totally flawed. Commitment to the Church (i.e. all Christians) is something that happens when you become a Christian. You are part of the bride. You can become a Christian at any age without your parent's permission!

God wants all people to commit to him first no matter what their age, not starting at 20 years. What kind of teaching is that? Surely he isn't saying, "Until you are 20, your first commitment should be to your parents, then, on your 20th birthday, you commit to God first."

It's the either-or fallacy rearing its ugly head again. Either you are under your parent's authority or under God's authority. (How about both with God first!) Either you are committed to your local GC church for life or you aren't committed to God (Whoa!). Either you let your child commit to a GC church for life or you are inserting yourself between your child and God. (But, of course, it's okay for a GC pastor to insert himself between your child and God because he has been "recognized"......all the way back to Jim McCotter in an unending apostolic succession that has a rich history going all the way back to the 70's--um, I mean the 1970's).

Last night, my husband and I were pondering why we stayed there so long, and honestly, it came down to the fact that we had no idea any of this was part of the deal. I'm not even sure all the pastors have any idea of the history. So, actually, I'm glad the teaching is getting bolder and more sectarian. I think it will help people in the long run.

I still hold out hope that many of the "elders" (who I believe genuinely love the Lord, but became Christians and then leaders in this twisted theological system) will have the guts to stand up and say, "No, this is wrong." Change will have to come from within.
Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
AgathaL'Orange
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1182



« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2009, 02:31:52 pm »

Quote
We're supposed to let everyone know how great God is.

Linda, your posts are smoking today!  Thanks.  And that line filled me with such happiness and such freedom today, because you know what?  God's greatness is going to be expressed differently by each person.  And each person is going to become more and more the person God created him or her to be.  God created a rainbow when he created human beings.  GC wants to make us all olive drab. 
Logged

Glad to be free.
JohnE
Obscure Poster (1-14 Posts)
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1



« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2009, 09:34:52 am »

Hi Linda, et al,  This is my inaugural post, and I'm really glad to be here.  It's easy to see that the events surrounding the time of your daughter's HSLT experience in 2005 changed everything for you and your family.  My kids are a lot younger than yours, but we too are protective of them and try to be aware of who has their ear.  I can imagine that, if my kids were teenagers and someone seemed to be asking them for lifetime commitment to a particular group while away at camp, I would instantly go into mother hen mode...or whatever the parallel is for a dad.

I've been involved in a GC church since '84, and even way back then in the ďearly daysĒ of the movement of churches, we always were taught that minors were under the authority of their parents, and that authority ultimately was given by God for their protection.  And I agree with you that our dependent children are under our authority and God's, "with God first."  In my opinion, this is even true for our college-aged children who leave home but are financially dependent upon us.

Since then, they now seem to add the "minors are under the authority of their parents" disclaimer, but may I point out, they NEVER corrected the original teaching.

I have trouble with this statement because the thoughts I expressed above about parental authority are not a recent addition in GC, but the normal belief and practice in our churches.  I haven't experienced any differently in my 25 years with GC.  You're sure to find some choice statements to the contrary if you sift through the available tens of 1000ís of teaching recorded over 40 years (even in some recent recordings, from your observations).  But those excerpts are the exception and don't charactarize Great Commission.

As for ďNEVERĒ correcting the original teaching, i.e. what was spoken at a specific place and time (not the overall theology or doctrine of a church), thatís hard to do.  Public speaking is tough, and itís easy to be a bonehead.  Have you ever delivered a prepared speech before a large audience?  Even small ones for that matter?

The potential for trouble worse is when you do a lot of public speaking over time, and compounded when itís recorded for all posterity, and even transcribed into books, blogs and forums.  Mistakes or misunderstandings take on a life of their own, and there isnít anything to contain them because they are removed from their context, including the context of relationship and the personís life over time. 

After Iíve spoken publicly, I like it when people ask me about something that was unclear, whether what I said was right or wrong.  But thatís in a local setting, and we know each other.  We desire to understand each other and help each other grow to be more like Christ. 

But itís hard to take care of any sensitive matters over distance, especially if theyíve broken out into a depersonalized venue far removed from place and time.

So much to say.  Iíve typed all these words about one little aspect of one little posting.  Iíd like to say more about other things, but I fear Iíve already transgressed in some way already.  Sorry if I have.  Smiley

ďWhen there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, but he who restrains his lips is wise.Ē Ė Prov 10:19
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2009, 10:12:14 am »

Quote
As for ďNEVERĒ correcting the original teaching, i.e. what was spoken at a specific place and time (not the overall theology or doctrine of a church), thatís hard to do.  Public speaking is tough, and itís easy to be a bonehead.  Have you ever delivered a prepared speech before a large audience?  Even small ones for that matter?
Hi John. Welcome. I appreciate the thought and time you put into this post and agree with most of it.

My problem with the HSLT teaching is that it wasn't just a slip of the tongue or a twisting of words that came out wrong. It was part of the planned teaching. It was given by a national leader--Mark Darling. There were "10 Commitment" bracelets that were made and handed out to the high school students attending the 2005 HSLT in Colorado so obviously some planning had gone into this. It was commitment number nine.

And I quote:
Quote
Commitment Number Nine. Make the commitment to devote yourself to your local church for the rest of your life.

This talk was addressed to high school students.

Students had to apply to go on this trip. They had to pay. They were assigned rooms. Therefore, the names and addresses of everyone (student and adult) attending this conference and hearing this bad teaching was easily available. A letter of correction could have easily been sent. (Unlike someone misspeaking at a Sunday service).

So while I agree that at times it would be difficult to correct public teaching, this was not one of those times.

In addition, this talk is still available online for all the world to hear with no clarification. So, frankly, the disclaimer made at Faithwalkers seems rather disingenuous.

Besides inserting themselves between parents and their children, the talk also was extremely sectarian. Asking for commitmennt to THE GROUP FOR LIFE. This is not right.

Quote from: HSLT 2005 Commitment talk
I made a determination as a young man to not leave my church in Ames until and only when I was sent. I was sent. Now, there is, of course, maybe a unique exception within "our movement" and it's a beautiful thing it's why some of us moved to different cities, big metropolitan areas. One, you may need a job and you can still stay linked with Great Commission Churches because you can find one in that city. Secondly, you may be leaving your local church to go to college to join another Great Commission Church that's like minded and I think that will equally accomplish the same thing. I'm here for life. You're not getting rid of me. I'm here.

Another point. It seems to me that any pastor who cares about the truth being preached and becomes aware that he has misspoken, should immediately and as publicly as possible correct that teaching.

For example, if someone gives a Sunday message and then becomes aware of the fact that he said something that was inaccurate or misleading, he should correct it at the next Sunday service and ask others attending to pass the word.

We had a pastor tell the congregation that they (the congregation) were the pastor's bride. Not only was this teaching never corrected, the CD was offered for free to anyone who wanted it.

The rationale given us by elders for not correcting bad teaching by other elders is, "I know the pastor's heart." He may have a great heart. He may love the Lord. But, if his teaching is bad and goes uncorrected he is misleading others.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 10:23:50 am by Linda » Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
AgathaL'Orange
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1182



« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2009, 04:11:39 pm »

John E, you sound like a nice guy.  Two things.

1.  I don't believe this teaching was a mistake... Linda summarized that up nicely; in addition, I sat through many an HSLT or teen retreat where these kinds of things were taught.

2.  Also, you seem nice.  Get out.  Save your family.  Save yourself.
Logged

Glad to be free.
MidnightRider
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 300



« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2009, 09:30:41 pm »

3. It's not as if that one particular teaching was the only problem with GCx. Rummage around in this forum and you will see that there are other things to be concerned about.
Logged
ANobody
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40



« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2009, 08:35:12 am »

This doctrine of "you must commit to your local GCI church for life" comes from at least as far back oas 1984.  Two of our elders, Moore and Wooten, held a special all-church seminar on the topic where they ordered us all to swear to commit to GCI for the remainder of our lives, like they were doing.   Cheesy  That seems so funny to me today because two years later they took that same West Lafayette church, tried to tear it into two churches--one for each of them (that did not work)--and both finally left GCI altogether because they did not like being ordered around by other leaders in the same heavy-handed manner they had been used to treating their own congregation.

John, if you think the "you must commit to you local GC church for life" doctrine is the random thinking of some rogue elder somewhere, think again.  GC has taught for decades that those who join a GC church are "married" to it, and the rules against literal divorce apply to church membership, making it impossible for members to leave without commiting the sin of "adultery."  True, not all GC churches have taught that, but Moore and Wooten did, and they got that from McCotter and the other national leaders.

Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2009, 09:18:35 am »

Interesting. Who are Moore and Wooten? How did they get connected to McCotter? What happened to them? Are they still with GC?
Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
Huldah
Private Forum Access
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 955



« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2009, 02:11:46 pm »

This doctrine of "you must commit to your local GCI church for life" comes from at least as far back as 1984. 
Yes, and even before. In 1978, no formal commitment was asked for or given because it was assumed that if you were there, you were there for life. This was never stated to recruits, by the way. New members only found out once they were in too deep to back out easily. I was told, "God put you in this church, and only God can remove you." If my memory isn't getting too jumbled, that was in the same discussion in which I was also told, "Excommunication is a terrible thing to go through. Don't do that to yourself." In other words, there was no honorable way out. The only way out, other than death, was to be thrown out in shame and disgrace.

Logged
miserere
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 15



« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2009, 03:34:10 pm »

I can attest to that.  More than once I knew of  people leaving by another route....escaping as if from a prison in the middle of the night with not a sign or clue as to where they had gone.  Not something you would find in most churches, or in most strict religious communities for that matter. 
Logged
randomous
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2009, 04:26:15 pm »

Does anyone know what the GCM-affiliated church at the University of Florida is like?
As for GatorC.L., one of the guys that helped start it was one of those on Wikipedia trying to purge the article, and ended-up confronted by another assignee-to-purge/cleanse-Wikipedia-turned-repentant (who subsequently came and posted here in apology if the other Wiki editors come by here, and said he would keep an eye out for WP tampering: that repentant guy is Nate Swinton, though he hasn't posted here in a while), and others over there.

Unbelievable.  Let me just say that what you've said here is patently untrue.  At best it is a misunderstanding, and at worst a blatant lie. 

FACT - I was never "assigned to purge" Wikipedia, and nor was Nate.

To set the straight, here's what did happen.  A friend and I were driving in the car, and said that they'd seen an article on wikipedia that was really biased.  I went home, looked at it a while later, and saw that they were right.  I then looked deeper into wikipedia's rules and guidelines, and realized that the state of the article was unacceptable.  I then, without even talking to anybody in leadership or otherwise, registered as an editor and began to try to improve it.  Eventually Nate saw the same things - basically, there were two editors on wikipedia trying to make the article into an expose of all the things they thought were wrong with GC.  So Nate joined in.  Both Nate and I did so on our personal time outside of fundraising duties and totally separate from our employment with GCM.  It was long after that point that other people starting asking advice from Nate and I on what they felt was still a biased article (fyi, it still is.  it's never going to be considered a good encyclopedia article the way it is, because views aren't represented proportionately). 

Yes, I was a part of Gator C.L. at that time.  It's a great church, and everyone who knows Matt Gordon knows he's one of the most humble servant leaders you'll ever meet.  The church there is proactive in uniting with the other ministries on campus and promoting unity events, and they have a spotless reputation in the community and on the campus.  I'd be glad to talk with the poster who was asking about it, or anyone else.
Logged
Linda
Household Name (300+ Posts)
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2496



« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 06:55:19 pm »

I had a question about GCL. My question was: Is GCL a student organization or a church? The reason I asked this question (having never before in my life heard of GLC till someone posted about their son's involvement and slipping grades) was because when I went to the linked web page it listed "officers" rather than elders. I thought that sounded more like a student organization rather than a church.

Interestingly enough, thus far, no one has actually answered my question and explained why this church lists "officers", but not elders.

Also, did you ever participate in a conference call with John Hopler about wiki? Just wondering. I seem to have that thought in the back of my mind from previous posts.
Logged

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
randomous
Regular (15-99 Posts)
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 86



« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 10:19:12 pm »

The answer is that Gator Christian Life is a registered student organization at UF and a ministry of a local church.  This is actually a pretty common set-up, not just at GC churches.  If you were to look at most large universities, probably 5-10 of the christian ones are going to be ministries of local churches.  Aside from the denominational ones like Chi Alpha or BCM or Wesley, at UF there is Victory UF, which is the student group of Victory Church, and Rock UF, the ministry of Rock Church there, and some others.  If you were a working person, you would tithe to the local church, which has a totally separate name.  The student group is led by officers - they are responsible for anything that happens on campus, dealing with the administration and obeying the rules and so on. 
I'm not there at GCL anymore, but I know that they recently received a lot of national media attention in a discrimination battle with the administration - some other Christian groups are in ongoing lawsuits, and other Christian groups had similar issues with the discrimination issue (whether a religious group can discriminate based on religion, in regards to leadership - the answer is yes).  GCL won without going to court, but were involved with Liberty Counsel.  Just an aside.  one link:  http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=404660
As for a conference call with John Hopler regarding wikipedia, yes that did occur.  It was after almost all of the current changes were enacted.  Basically, Mr. Hopler wanted to understand wikipedia and how it works.  He also had some specific things that he saw weren't accurate, based on his personal experience and being there.  Nate and I explained to him that there had to be sources, and that was the main requirement, so as long as those sources remain uncorrected, there was nothing he could do.  He asked our advice on what he should do, and we gave it, and that was it.  As I was saying earlier, internet things like wikipedia are a little foreign to those not in our generation.   
Logged
Anonymous
Guest

« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2009, 08:20:37 am »

As for a conference call with John Hopler regarding wikipedia, yes that did occur.  It was after almost all of the current changes were enacted.  Basically, Mr. Hopler wanted to understand wikipedia and how it works.  He also had some specific things that he saw weren't accurate, based on his personal experience and being there.  Nate and I explained to him that there had to be sources, and that was the main requirement, so as long as those sources remain uncorrected, there was nothing he could do.  He asked our advice on what he should do, and we gave it, and that was it.  As I was saying earlier, internet things like wikipedia are a little foreign to those not in our generation.   

See guys? Everything's legit! No shenanigans here. Gator Christian Life is an "autonomous" church with GCM missionaries, but that doesn't mean those missionaries can't have conversations with John Hopler (the executive director of GCC, a "completely unrelated" organization) about online criticism of the movement and which criticisms he feels should be removed. randomous was simply acting out of his own free will, nevermind that John Hopler is a "national elder" and someone who holds great sway over the elders in charge of randomous (and who determine future promotions he receives.) Nothing to see here, move along folks.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  


Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
SimplePortal 2.1.1