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Author Topic: The Reckoning  (Read 77590 times)
Linda
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« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2018, 05:43:13 pm »

Agreed. Harassing someone with hundreds of emails is wrong. It should not be done.

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G_Prince
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« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2018, 05:59:27 pm »

What i understand is that there are some guys that do web design stuff, and know how to figure some things out, and were able to track this information down somehow.  I don't know if it was and IP address or what.  Someone else might be able to answer this.  Blonde was not chosen as some random name, I know that. 

Okay, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

It should go without saying that that's a terrible thing to do, but I'm saying it anyway, just so my position is clear: harassing someone with hundreds of emails a day is a terrible thing to do.

I'm sorry but there is no way anyone could send hundreds of harassing emails A DAY. It's obvious hyperbole...also why not file a restraining order if that was truly happening.

Also hi Linda, good to see you again. Hope all is well 😁
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Peace
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« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2018, 06:09:50 pm »

Thought to ponder: If it is true that Blonde is sending ANY harassing emails to Mark Darling, I think we would all agree to some point that this is wrong. It would be a shame if this entire forum was represented by Blonde's words and actions. This is the exact notion that I have been trying to discuss with several of you. I truly believe the vast majority of people on this forum are well-intentioned individuals. I also happen to believe the vast majority of people in GCx are well-intentioned individuals. Both in this forum and in GCx there have been wrongs that need to be dealt with. Can we maybe move towards trying to address these individuals and individual situations rather than lumping them all together?

Lord, help us to see each other as brothers and sisters!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:22:06 pm by Peace » Logged
Huldah
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« Reply #63 on: March 08, 2018, 06:57:48 pm »

Peace, we're coming from at least two fundamentally different viewpoints. You, perhaps, are more of a "Least said, soonest mended," sort of person, whereas I'm more of a "Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it," sort of person. And others here may have a third, or fourth, approach.

I don't think the oldtimers/ex-GCers on this forum are lumping things together. We've had similar experiences that point to systemic problems with GC churches. Some have had common experiences that point to a possible problem with specific leaders. I don't consider this as "lumping them all together" so much as identifying trends and patterns. We didn't create those patterns. We just point them out. I see that as an essential first step to solving a problem. The next steps depend on those who have the power to change those patterns, which most of us here do not. But should those with the power ever desire our input, it's all archived here in this forum.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 07:57:34 pm by Huldah » Logged
Al
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« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2018, 07:52:03 pm »

I have tried to stay out of this, and haven't posted here or anywhere, because I'm not always sure the conversation is helpful.  But I can't take it any more.  I am a member of ECC, disgusted by what's going on at my church, and disgusted by most of what is going on here.  I am disgusted that all parties seem more interested in attacking people who don't agree with them, rather than trying to listen.  If we are true Christians, we are called to be peacemakers.  We are called to try to bring healing to those in pain.  I'm not seeing a lot of this here.  In the last week, the only new perspective that i think align with this is Suzanne yesterday when she reached out to Evergreen to try to work with them to restart the investigation in a way that was agreeable to both parties, and would meet the needed transparency requirements.  I thought that was an olive branch, and spoke to me as a spirit of peacemaking.  The majority of the rest of the commentary has been angry people attacking ECC, agree people from ECC attacking others back, The Reckoning coming out with a spirit of "if you're not with me, you are my enemy, and I'm on the attack", more people coming back to attack the author like he is the original party that is being accused here (He is not, he is the accused son, who probably is struggling, and deserves to be given some grace, which I'm not seeing a lot of here).  EVERYBODY JUST NEEDS TO CALM DOWN.  Breath, unplug from the internet for a bit, and then come back and try to have a conversation that is open and respectful to all parties.

I can appreciate the sentiment, Peacemaker, but I've followed this site for awhile and I just don't think rationality often wins over high emotions. High emotions aren't necessarily a bad thing, but rather its more of what it can causeĖ Insults, degrading comments, leading and unfair questions, strong bias without basis. etc... No one ends up listening to each other which is why conversations go in infinite loops.
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Al
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« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2018, 08:07:19 pm »

Let's also take ownership for our own actions.  I cannot make anyone do anything.  I am responsible for my own actions, not for another's.

It's like self-discipline in karate. Smiley  Someone else's words should not draw you into a fight.

I think 1 Corinthians 5 better describes your father's current situation and Evergreen's as well.


Let's discuss taking ownership for our own actions.  Let's take a look in the mirror.  I obviously know what my life looks like but Badger, since you have been questioning Jeromy on here, his job and his salary and his testimony, why don't we touch on that a little more.  His job: anyone who knows him personally knows that he left a very well paying job as a designer to work in ministry.  While I don't know what he is paid (I cannot imagine it is much), I can see from observing his life; he lives quite frugally.  He does not drive a fancy car, refuses to, and his children, while they are cute, dress in hand me-downs.  That's right.  A guy who used to work for huge, successful corporations left his career to do some pretty insignificant work ,ya know sharing the Gospel.  So...while you see his frustration over some pretty serious allegations against his father, as being an angry man - I think there's some righteousness behind that.  So...what about you.  Let's talk about your salary.  How do you spend your time and money AND what have you been doing for your personal "jesus," lately.  I'm glad you at least know you will stand before God proud of the way you've carried your cross.

There are many folks who, for whatever reason, are super sensitive about tone in communication, and to some degree we can all be cognizant of that. Sometimes this has a lot to do with one's past or upbringing. I for one didn't find the tone offensive, but rather intense. There is clear anger in his statement, but anger in and of itself is not wrong. We, this forum, should rather be talking about the substance of the content of the memo and stop wasting time labeling him with "unhinged" or what not. I agree with your objective observations about the fact that he had a high paying job and went into ministry. I think this lends itself to a positive motive for ministry over money, but again, I'm more interested in talking about the contents of the statement.
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Badger
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« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2018, 10:08:27 pm »

Jeromy is correct in the fact that he has two pastors overseeing his 501 (c) (3).  Both of them are listed underneath his father's name as pastors at The Rock Church, Minneapolis - Ryan Stahl and Karl Quickert.  This looks like a conflict of interest to me.  Just because money is raised as a "missionary" or goes into a 501 (c) (3) status doesn't mean that Jeromy isn't being overcompensated.  It doesn't mean that his board is making sure he is not receiving fringe benefits above and beyond his salary - cell phone, lavish hotel rooms like his father had at GCC meetings, food budget, photo shoots, etc - benefits that aren't as obvious as a flashy car.

Iamnotafraid, you said yourself, "I don't know what he is paid (I cannot imagine it is much)"  I have tried searching for the 501 (c) (c) IRS filings and had no luck.  This is why I asked Jeromy how the money given to his non-profit is being used.  You mentioned that Jeromy gave up executive life all for God.  (Very cliche and respected in GCM/GCC, by the way.  The hard way is always the more godly way).  Is Jeromy able to give up being paid by the church, or is does he need to be employed by the church.  In other words, how free is he to give up his missionary salary and make a living outside the church?  Is this fully a choice based on devotion to God, or is it difficult to find employment outside the family business?  In a culture where the value of education is GCC pastors, especially, are financially dependent on being employed by the church.

Perhaps i would feel differently if his father wasn't asking for church members to support his son.  If his non-profit was overseen by people who served as pastors at his dad's church with a power differential present.  As for my salary, I am not a charity, my father doesn't advocate for churches under his direction to give my organization money, and the people deciding how much I make are not influenced by my father.
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Badger
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« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2018, 10:28:15 pm »

FYI Suzanne continues to mark this letter and my comments as SPAM on Facebook. It's not going to work...

Already Jeromy Darling has accused two women on this post and on Facebook as blocking his FB posts as spam.  I saw Jessi's posts on Suzanne's page showing she did not block his posts.  Suzanne denied such actions earlier in this thread.  Talk about making up false accusations.

This is one of the reasons I don't trust Jeromy's written or spoken word.
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2018, 10:55:59 pm »

Really Jeromy is not the person on trial here.  I typically think we should steer clear from scolding leadersí children, adult or otherwise, unless we address what they are saying (like Jeromyís letter). I wish  Jeromy hadnít brought up Suzanneís family either.    Families arenít fair game IMO.




Now about that fair, impartial investigation.  Letís keep hoping!  
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 11:47:11 pm by AgathaL'Orange » Logged

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Linda
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« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2018, 06:59:04 am »

Jeromy,

I read your comment twice. Once with the soundtrack. Then reread a few paragraphs. I admire your willingness to defend your dad. Clearly, you all love him and your mom very much.

One thing that I am confused on is what you believe is going on. Are you saying the allegations are coming from Suzanne and completely made up and that Suzanne is inventing other women and claiming these fake women were abused?

Or, are you claiming someone or a group of people are pretending to be Suzanne (and John) and are making up these allegations?

Also, for clarification. As I understand it you are categorically denying that your dad ever met alone in basements, forests, hiking trails, wherever with any women (other than family, of course). You are also categorically denying he ever touched these women in any inappropriate way. In other words, the hug wasnít misinterpreted, it never happened.

Just want to make sure I have a correct understanding.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 08:42:56 pm by Linda » Logged

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Differentstrokes
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« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2018, 07:49:26 am »

Jeromy, I really hope this made you feel better some how. I used to really lol up to you because you were so cool and passionate........ I know this is probably and extremely difficult time for you, and I'm sorry about that. I hope you find the healing you're lookingnfor.
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iamnotafraid
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« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2018, 08:59:03 am »

FYI Suzanne continues to mark this letter and my comments as SPAM on Facebook. It's not going to work...

Already Jeromy Darling has accused two women on this post and on Facebook as blocking his FB posts as spam.  I saw Jessi's posts on Suzanne's page showing she did not block his posts.  Suzanne denied such actions earlier in this thread.  Talk about making up false accusations.

This is one of the reasons I don't trust Jeromy's written or spoken word.

You trust Suzanne's accusations without any proof and you don't know her.  Jeromy received notification his posts were marked as SPAM (I've marked peoples posts as spam on my wall before, not an unreasonable thing to do) and accused Suzanne of marking them as spam and those 2 accusations are comparable: Jeromy's dad accused of sexual abuse and B) Jeromy accusing someone of marking a post as spam. 
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iamnotafraid
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« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2018, 09:17:06 am »

Jeromy is correct in the fact that he has two pastors overseeing his 501 (c) (3).  Both of them are listed underneath his father's name as pastors at The Rock Church, Minneapolis - Ryan Stahl and Karl Quickert.  This looks like a conflict of interest to me.  Just because money is raised as a "missionary" or goes into a 501 (c) (3) status doesn't mean that Jeromy isn't being overcompensated.  It doesn't mean that his board is making sure he is not receiving fringe benefits above and beyond his salary - cell phone, lavish hotel rooms like his father had at GCC meetings, food budget, photo shoots, etc - benefits that aren't as obvious as a flashy car.

Iamnotafraid, you said yourself, "I don't know what he is paid (I cannot imagine it is much)"  I have tried searching for the 501 (c) (c) IRS filings and had no luck.  This is why I asked Jeromy how the money given to his non-profit is being used.  You mentioned that Jeromy gave up executive life all for God.  (Very cliche and respected in GCM/GCC, by the way.  The hard way is always the more godly way).  Is Jeromy able to give up being paid by the church, or is does he need to be employed by the church.  In other words, how free is he to give up his missionary salary and make a living outside the church?  Is this fully a choice based on devotion to God, or is it difficult to find employment outside the family business?  In a culture where the value of education is GCC pastors, especially, are financially dependent on being employed by the church.

Perhaps i would feel differently if his father wasn't asking for church members to support his son.  If his non-profit was overseen by people who served as pastors at his dad's church with a power differential present.  As for my salary, I am not a charity, my father doesn't advocate for churches under his direction to give my organization money, and the people deciding how much I make are not influenced by my father.

Badger - I follow Jeromy on FB/Instagram and I'm friends with his family.  I do know Jeromy had a very successful career as a web designer.  I mean, if any person in the world from any country or any church gave up their comfortable job to be in missions I think I would have some level of respect for them and not assume they did it because they thought they were more Godly than other people.  Where is your deep, ugly disgust for this man coming from.  From following him and his family on FB, I've noticed when he travels he is always staying with people from other churches in their homes.  We've supported his work before because we believe in the work he is doing.  We believe the Gospel is getting out and we have an eye into his life by seeing him regularly and how often he is volunteering, along with his family.  If you knew him personally you would find a very genuine and caring nature in him.  You seem to have some real issues you need to repent of.  Badger, you may not be a charity but what you do with your time, your money and your resources matter.  You do not need to compare your godly life to the one Jeromy is living. 
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2018, 10:54:04 am »

Badger appears to have picked an accurate alias.
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2018, 04:40:01 pm »

So this is what you have to believe if you want to support Suzanne's claims of sexual abuse.

1. Mark Darling, a man with a 35 year track record of running for God, sexually abused her 20 years ago. The story of his life and legacy militate against this in such a compelling way that you have to simply ignore all that. His family is a shining success, so ignore that. His children are wonderful well balance Christ followers, so ignore that. And his wife loves him and, by all accounts, they have a great marriage, so ignore that too. So basically ignore everything you know about his character and life.

2. Not only did he abuse her, but he is a serial abuser. Oddly, no other "victims" have come forward to make any such claims with the exception of "Victim C and Victim A" both of who are unnamed, and their stories were only communicated by Suzanne on social media. Even if you believed the stories, none of the accusations constitute sexual abuse. It sounds more like a Pastor loving his flock with kindness and support. Note none of them (not even Suzanne) accuse him of ever touching them, but I digress.

3. Then, and here's where it gets even better, three other Sr. Pastors, faithful men who have dedicated their life to serving God's people, all learned about this "abuse" and decided to cover it up. What was their motive you ask? Who knows, but Mark Bowen (sneaky man that he is) Brent Knox (so dreadful) and Doug Patterson (dastardly Doug) conspired to hatch a plan that would cover these terrible transgressions up for good. They tried to bribe Suzanne for her silence, but being the pillar of purity that she is, she refused. Oddly enough though she then did disappear from the scene for 18 years and never to bring it up agai...(oh, I almost said "again," but that's would have been wrong - she never brought it up at all in the past).

4. For reasons unknown Suzanne did not mention sexual abuse in her letter to Mark, to her counselor, or to her closest friends in the Plymouth church at the time (I know them and they told me sexual abuse was never mentioned). But...conveniently the #metoo movement came along 18 years later and well, hey she was abused too. She wasn't too specific at first on social media about what this abuse was, but then it crystallized into a story of sexual abuse. A story mind you she never told 18 years ago. But as one of her supporters on this forum said, "often it takes many years to feel comfortable sharing their experience." So boom 18 years later she feels comfortable sharing her experience.

5. And then a beautiful and godly woman by the name of Kathy Darling was complicit in the whole thing. You see she knew about Mark's activities and approved of them. Not only did she approve of them, she participated in, and was party to, the abuse. She even - get this - made Suzanne listen to them having sex (downstairs which was not even where their bedroom was so explain that to me - but I digress again). So this Godly wife and woman of God helped in the abuse. Yep, you heard that right. Come on people. Use some discernment skills!

6. Suzanne's husband knew she had been groomed and serially sexually abused for years and did nothing to stop it.

If you believe this I feel sorry for you, and I have some prime swamp land I'd like to sell you.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:14:38 pm by Digital Lynch Mob » Logged
jeromydaviddarling
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« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2018, 06:33:38 pm »

So this is what you have to believe if you want to support Suzanne's claims of sexual abuse.

1. Mark Darling, a man with a 35 year track record of running for God, sexually abused her 20 years ago. The story of his life and legacy militate against this in such a compelling way that you have to simply ignore all that. His family is a shining success, so ignore that. His children are wonderful well balance Christ followers, so ignore that. And his wife loves him and, by all accounts, they have a great marriage, so ignore that too. So basically ignore everything you know about his character and life.

2. Not only did he abuse her, but he is a serial abuser. Oddly, no other "victims" have come forward to make any such claims with the exception of "Victim C and Victim A" both of who are unnamed, and their stories were only communicated by Suzanne on social media. Even if you believed the stories, none of the accusations constitute sexual abuse. It sounds more like a Pastor loving his flock with kindness and support. Note none of them (not even Suzanne) accuse him of ever touching them, but I digress.

3. Then, and here's where it gets even better, three other Sr. Pastors, faithful men who have dedicated their life to serving God's people, all learned about this "abuse" and decided to cover it up. What was their motive you ask? Who knows, but Mark Bowen (sneaky man that he is) Brent Knox (so dreadful) and Doug Patterson (dastardly Doug) conspired to hatch a plan that would cover these terrible transgressions up for good. They tried to bribe Suzanne for her silence, but being the pillar of purity that she is, she refused. Oddly enough though she then did disappear from the scene for 18 years and never to bring it up agai...(oh, I almost said "again," but that's would have been wrong - she never brought it up at all in the past).

4. For reasons unknown Suzanne did not mention sexual abuse in her letter to Mark, to her counselor, or to her closest friends in the Plymouth church at the time (I know them and they told me sexual abuse was never mentioned). But...conveniently the #metoo movement came along 18 years later and well, hey she was abused too. She wasn't too specific at first on social media about what this abuse was, but then it crystallized into a story of sexual abuse. A story mind you she never told 18 years ago. But as one of her supporters on this forum said, "often it takes many years to feel comfortable sharing their experience." So boom 18 years later she feels comfortable sharing her experience.

5. And then a beautiful and godly woman by the name of Kathy Darling was complicit in the whole thing. You see she knew about Mark's activities and approved of them. Not only did she approve of them, she participated in, and was party to, the abuse. She even - get this - made Suzanne listen to them having sex (downstairs which was not even where their bedroom was so explain that to me - but I digress again). So this Godly wife and woman of God helped in the abuse. Yep, you heard that right. Come on people. Use some discernment skills!

6. Suzanne's husband knew she had been groomed and serially sexually abused for years and did nothing to stop it.

If you believe this I feel sorry for you, and I have some prime swamp land I'd like to sell you.

Wow I checked out for the day and was greeted by this mic drop. I suppose I could have condensed my letter to this...
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AgathaL'Orange
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« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2018, 06:54:15 pm »

reckoning--
the avenging or punishing of past mistakes or misdeeds.
"the fear of being brought to reckoning"
synonyms: retribution, fate, doom, nemesis, punishment
"the terrible reckoning that he deserved"

That's a strong and scary word directed at Suzanne or those who want to see claims investigated fairly.





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G_Prince
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« Reply #77 on: March 09, 2018, 08:00:55 pm »

reckoning--
the avenging or punishing of past mistakes or misdeeds.
"the fear of being brought to reckoning"
synonyms: retribution, fate, doom, nemesis, punishment
"the terrible reckoning that he deserved"

That's a strong and scary word directed at Suzanne or those who want to see claims investigated fairly.







So right Agatha. Everything about this reeks with intimidation.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2018, 08:15:51 pm »

So this is what you have to believe if you want to support Suzanne's claims of sexual abuse.

1. Mark Darling, a man with a 35 year track record of running for God, sexually abused her 20 years ago. The story of his life and legacy militate against this in such a compelling way that you have to simply ignore all that. His family is a shining success, so ignore that. His children are wonderful well balance Christ followers, so ignore that. And his wife loves him and, by all accounts, they have a great marriage, so ignore that too. So basically ignore everything you know about his character and life.

2. Not only did he abuse her, but he is a serial abuser. Oddly, no other "victims" have come forward to make any such claims with the exception of "Victim C and Victim A" both of who are unnamed, and their stories were only communicated by Suzanne on social media. Even if you believed the stories, none of the accusations constitute sexual abuse. It sounds more like a Pastor loving his flock with kindness and support. Note none of them (not even Suzanne) accuse him of ever touching them, but I digress.

3. Then, and here's where it gets even better, three other Sr. Pastors, faithful men who have dedicated their life to serving God's people, all learned about this "abuse" and decided to cover it up. What was their motive you ask? Who knows, but Mark Bowen (sneaky man that he is) Brent Knox (so dreadful) and Doug Patterson (dastardly Doug) conspired to hatch a plan that would cover these terrible transgressions up for good. They tried to bribe Suzanne for her silence, but being the pillar of purity that she is, she refused. Oddly enough though she then did disappear from the scene for 18 years and never to bring it up agai...(oh, I almost said "again," but that's would have been wrong - she never brought it up at all in the past).

4. For reasons unknown Suzanne did not mention sexual abuse in her letter to Mark, to her counselor, or to her closest friends in the Plymouth church at the time (I know them and they told me sexual abuse was never mentioned). But...conveniently the #metoo movement came along 18 years later and well, hey she was abused too. She wasn't too specific at first on social media about what this abuse was, but then it crystallized into a story of sexual abuse. A story mind you she never told 18 years ago. But as one of her supporters on this forum said, "often it takes many years to feel comfortable sharing their experience." So boom 18 years later she feels comfortable sharing her experience.

5. And then a beautiful and godly woman by the name of Kathy Darling was complicit in the whole thing. You see she knew about Mark's activities and approved of them. Not only did she approve of them, she participated in, and was party to, the abuse. She even - get this - made Suzanne listen to them having sex (downstairs which was not even where their bedroom was so explain that to me - but I digress again). So this Godly wife and woman of God helped in the abuse. Yep, you heard that right. Come on people. Use some discernment skills!

6. Suzanne's husband knew she had been groomed and serially sexually abused for years and did nothing to stop it.

If you believe this I feel sorry for you, and I have some prime swamp land I'd like to sell you.

Wow I checked out for the day and was greeted by this mic drop. I suppose I could have condensed my letter to this...

Wait... didn't you write this? Confused now.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
iamnotafraid
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« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2018, 08:17:12 pm »

reckoning--
the avenging or punishing of past mistakes or misdeeds.
"the fear of being brought to reckoning"
synonyms: retribution, fate, doom, nemesis, punishment
"the terrible reckoning that he deserved"

That's a strong and scary word directed at Suzanne or those who want to see claims investigated fairly.

That's funny because I just typed the VERY SAME word into my dictionary app and got this information: reck:on:ing = a persons view, opinion or judgement.  synonyms: opinion, view, evaluation or judgement.  His letter was to multiple people, probably including you Prince (quite a pretentious masquerade)






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