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Author Topic: Pastor Mark Darling-Pastor who abused me  (Read 285190 times)
Linda
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« Reply #260 on: March 16, 2018, 10:21:51 am »

Gold Peak Sweet. Christmas. I don't have a dog. #yourewelcome
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #261 on: March 16, 2018, 11:01:04 am »

Gold Peak Sweet. Christmas. I don't have a dog. #yourewelcome

...and 70 days.
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Linda
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« Reply #262 on: March 16, 2018, 11:12:45 am »

Quote from: omelianchuk
Perhaps for the run of the mill member, it would be very hard to "take it to the church" in a situation like this, but John and Suzanne were not ordinary members. They were beloved and trusted leaders who had the backing of all the Evergreen locations, the ECC leadership team, and GCM. Were they not in a position to "take it to the church" just because they were overseas? I find that hard to believe. My aunt and uncle were recruited to take the place of John and Suzanne after they left, and they had no problems communicating with us. I, for one, have a hard time believing they are more empowered now than they were then "to take it to the church."

I guess I disagree with your take on this.

Once they returned from Berlin, they had no voice whatsoever.

In fact, there was a meeting that I attended in which we were actually told not to contact the van Dycks and ask them why they left.

In addition, we were told not to ask any questions about them of relatives who still attended ECC.

I guess they could have rushed the stage at that meeting...had they known that meeting about them was taking place.

Again, there are many unanswered questions.

If there is nothing to hide, why will ECC not agree to transparent results of an independent investigation? It is a curiosity.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #263 on: March 16, 2018, 11:29:49 am »

Gold Peak Sweet. Christmas. I don't have a dog. #yourewelcome

Thank you for your honesty  Wink
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Outtathere
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« Reply #264 on: March 16, 2018, 11:30:50 am »

What you just described, Linda, is the shunning that occurs in controlling and abusive churches. The fact that they did not bring it forward at the time could be due to not having a case or it could be due to the practice of shunning, which multiple members have attested to. I participated in shunning those who left my GC church. I was often told a spin version of why they left. In one meeting, I blatantly heard a pastor said we were not to talk with a person and have nothing to do with them. I experienced it towards myself when I chose to leave as well. In such an environment, it is very difficult to have a fair hearing.

Ironically, I do not hear you, Omelianchuk, asking for an opportunity for a discussion to take place where both sides can be heard. I believe that is all that is being requested by the VanDyck family. I do not know their motives but it is worth considering that the reason they are making things known in this public manner is because they were unable to do so many years ago.
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Wrestling
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« Reply #265 on: March 16, 2018, 11:37:04 am »

Gold Peak Sweet. Christmas. I don't have a dog. #yourewelcome

...and 70 days.

Sitting here, watching this all unfold. I understand how it must be frustrating to see people who left years ago saying bad things about your church. But if you profess Christ, doesn't He beg you to ask, "What hurt you so badly you post here so often? I may disagree, but please let me seek to understand you better. Why are you saying these terrible things?" And my guess is their answers won't be simple or quick. And it will take time to peel back the layers. But don't stop. Jesus doesn't stop pursuing us in love. If you want to engage in this, don't stop until you seek to understand the pain that spurred the creation of this corner of the internet. And you could argue that it goes both ways. But this is their corner of the internet. Try to understand why it's here, please.
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omelianchuk
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« Reply #266 on: March 16, 2018, 11:45:18 am »

Linda, they didn't have to come back from Berlin in order to raise the issue. Under your hypothesis, they already raised it twice and could have raised it again before they left.

Outathere, what is "ironic" about me not asking for that opportunity? What I am doing is evaluating Linda's hypothesis that the van Dyke's were denied an opportunity to apply Matthew 18-style confrontation. As for a forum where both sides can be heard, I am all for it. Indeed, I am participating in one as far I can on this forum, so the irony seems to be lost you, if anyone.
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Linda
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« Reply #267 on: March 16, 2018, 11:56:11 am »

From what she stated on this forum, they didnít realize that the planned therapy wasnít going to take place when they left. They learned of it after they arrived in Germany and it precipitated their departure.

How exactly would they have presented their case in front of the entire congregation from Germany in anything other than a 1 sided way? Why would they have to do it from Germany? Why couldnít they do it here is my point. And just how would they go about orchestrating a face to face meeting with the congregation at an ECC church where they stated their case?



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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #268 on: March 16, 2018, 12:19:51 pm »

If they had no voice, it was because they didn't want a voice. When they came back from Germany they refused to meet with the leadership team in the church. It is common for missionaries coming home from overseas to struggle with reintegration. To help the VDs, evergreen brought in Mission Training International to help with this process: https://www.mti.org/

The VD essentially left 30 families in Germany when they came home and yet would not meet to discuss a go-forward strategy or help plan for the future. It was MTI who introduced the separation agreement that went along with an offer of severance for John. But he wouldn't play ball. To say that the offer of a severance package was an attempted bride to silence Suzanne is patently false and one of the biggest (but certainly not the only) demonstrable falsehoods in her story.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 12:27:04 pm by Digital Lynch Mob » Logged
omelianchuk
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« Reply #269 on: March 16, 2018, 12:27:34 pm »

From what she stated on this forum, they didnít realize that the planned therapy wasnít going to take place when they left. They learned of it after they arrived in Germany and it precipitated their departure.

How exactly would they have presented their case in front of the entire congregation from Germany in anything other than a 1 sided way? Why would they have to do it from Germany? Why couldnít they do it here is my point. And just how would they go about orchestrating a face to face meeting with the congregation at an ECC church where they stated their case?

Matthew 18:17: "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church." Imagine this scenario. The van Dyke's hear that the plan they agreed to with the elders will not be followed. They arrive in Germany and become convinced that they have the right to tell the church of the problem. Nothing in the text says that they have to do it face-to-face or in an inclusive way. They have access to the email list of their supporters and the members of Evergreen-Plymouth, GCM leadership (Kern is still in the picture) and perhaps everyone in the system. They compose an email detailing the problem in an email and send it.

Is that too far fetched? Perhaps we will disagree on how a "tell it to the church" event is supposed to happen (you seem to assume it has to be face-to-face with the accused sitting there able to verbally respond -- why?), though we might agree that doing this would not be a prudent thing to do when one is beginning a new church plant. Fair enough. But as far as I can tell, this sort of opportunity was not denied to them.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 12:30:15 pm by omelianchuk » Logged
MicahJoelDarling
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« Reply #270 on: March 16, 2018, 12:29:51 pm »

From what she stated on this forum, they didnít realize that the planned therapy wasnít going to take place when they left. They learned of it after they arrived in Germany and it precipitated their departure.

How exactly would they have presented their case in front of the entire congregation from Germany in anything other than a 1 sided way? Why would they have to do it from Germany? Why couldnít they do it here is my point. And just how would they go about orchestrating a face to face meeting with the congregation at an ECC church where they stated their case?

Linda,

You seem to be under the impression that a "therapy plan" for my dad is a fact. That is not the case. There was never a therapy plan, so the argument that the reason the van Dyck's left was because my dad didn't step down from ministry and undergo a therapy plan is baseless. And there was no sexual abuse brought up in that meeting, or in John/Suzanne's letter (which, I'll add here as this seems to be a misunderstanding, half of the letter was from John and half was from Suzanne).

Other than the fact that it didn't exist, there are a couple flaws I see in the concept of the therapy plan agreement and the van Dycks disappointment in finding out that it wasn't followed leading them to leave Berlin:

1. Suzanne claimed that part of the agreement was that my dad would not only undergo therapy, but would also step down from Pastoring for a time. It seems incredibly hard to believe that in the 1-2 years (I'm foggy on how long they were there) the van Dyck's were in Berlin and still maintained contact with ECC that they wouldn't have picked up on my dad not taking a leave of absence. Wouldn't that have been the first thing they noticed?

2. If Suzanne had actually brought up sexual abuse in that meeting in 2001, why would they have ever accepted an agreement in the first place that my dad could simply step down from pastoring for a time and undergo therapy, with the opportunity for him to go back to pastoring soon after? I can't understand why anyone would agree to this at all. If a pastor sexually abuses someone, all he has to do is take a leave of absence for a few months, undergo therapy, and that suddenly makes him fit to go back to being a pastor? I don't think it does. But I guess that is just my opinion.
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Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #271 on: March 16, 2018, 12:41:20 pm »

I think this was addressed to you Linda. Perhaps you missed it.

Since it wasn't addressed in the other thread, I'll post it here:
Linda,

This is slightly off-topic, but it was spurred on by seeing how consistent you tend to jump in for Suzanne, or for questions that there are no easy answers to. What's been your driving motivation all of these years? Honest question. There really hasn't been that much evidence presented in this situation to assume my father is guilty of anything, but you happily jumped in to support Suzanne and it seems like you became quick friends. My presumption is that most of the folks who quickly picked sides already had beef. What's been your beef in a nutshell (?) because from where I'm standing, I've witnessed the gospel reach many people all the while being delivered from an organization that, while imperfect, is committed to delivering the gospel message to whoever will listen. I have NO basis for understanding what drives you to the lengths you've gone to discredit everything and anything related to Evergreen or GCC. What has hurt you so much?

The reality is, the majority of the people providing perspective from the other side of this conversation know Mark much better than you ever did, but you continue to be so adamant on knowing Mark to be a devious, awful person. You didn't even know Suzanne before siding with her. It's telling. I don't even think you believe this illustrates a problem, but it so clearly does. This forum is practically your part time job (not trying to sound mean). My opinion from everything I've witnessed is that the truth, despite what you say, is not your main concern. I don't think you want "healing" like you say. It seems apparent that you want to see destruction. Outside folks who know nothing about GCC have read this stuff and thought the same thing about this forum and the folks who regularly contribute. Can you understand where I'm coming from and why I'm asking this? If someone read this forum before attending a GCC church, they would probably assume that flames would shoot out as soon as they entered the doors / someone would point out and say, you're fat, go away / all leaders are secret and cunning perverts / Jim McCotter helped fake the moon landing (humor is good, right?) etc. etc. etc. It just seems so disproportionately inflammatory reading the content of this site, and even on this thread, compared to reality, which is quite nice actually. I'm trying to understand your world because no one I know, inside or outside GCC can identify with it. I want to be able to empathize. Help me understand.
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G_Prince
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« Reply #272 on: March 16, 2018, 12:53:20 pm »


If there is nothing to hide, why will ECC not agree to transparent results of an independent investigation? It is a curiosity.

I think it's become clear that they have no idea what this actually means. Somehow an investigation by their lawyer = fair and balanced. And they act like this is some major concession, like they are somehow doing Suzanne a favor. After seeing their arrogant, entitled, and self-righteous troll campaign in action, I completely understand why Suzanne has cut off all communication with them.
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Here's an easy way to find out if you're in a cult. If you find yourself asking the question, "am I in a cult?" the answer is yes. -Stephen Colbert
Digital Lynch Mob
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« Reply #273 on: March 16, 2018, 01:01:25 pm »


If there is nothing to hide, why will ECC not agree to transparent results of an independent investigation? It is a curiosity.

I think it's become clear that they have no idea what this actually means. Somehow an investigation by their lawyer = fair and balanced. And they act like this is some major concession, like they are somehow doing Suzanne a favor. After seeing their arrogant, entitled, and self-righteous troll campaign in action, I completely understand why Suzanne has cut off all communication with them.

Where'd you get your law degree?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 01:19:54 pm by Digital Lynch Mob » Logged
HughHoney
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« Reply #274 on: March 16, 2018, 01:21:36 pm »

Guys, the fake moon landings havenít even been attempted since Jim McCobbler left 3 decades ago!
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omelianchuk
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« Reply #275 on: March 16, 2018, 01:36:04 pm »

Guys, the fake moon landings havenít even been attempted since Jim McCobbler left 3 decades ago!

Didn't we have footage of that before 1988?  Wink
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #276 on: March 16, 2018, 02:03:24 pm »

Not to digress from Moon Landings or anything but...

This is not a response to anyone. 

Just wanted to state that Victim C and husband said that they sent the leadership at Evergreen a letter strongly urging them to deal with Mark Darling's issues.  They did not get a response back that anything was done.  Nada.  That letter might have been kept. 

Not if Victim A is fake, which I think is about as far out as the moon.  About a one or two chance in a hundred that Scout is sitting around making up victim stories.  How ludicrous.  Now THAT is a real conspiracy story if there was one.  Victim A, C, and Scout sound very different. 

I was around during those years and I think it is very, very likely that I know Victim A.  I think they are all real flesh and blood people and I will support them until it is investigated as a fraud.  I was around during those years.
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GodisFaithful
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« Reply #277 on: March 16, 2018, 02:12:01 pm »

I meant Victim A and husband sent a letter.
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DarthVader
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« Reply #278 on: March 16, 2018, 03:22:16 pm »

My understanding is Victim C sent information to the ECC investigator and did not do so anonymously.  My only source for that is Suzanne's FB post a few days ago stating such, but that would be a lie with a very shortly lifespan given I'm guessing anyone on the board (e.g., Lynn Newman) could easily call the investigator and ask "has anyone else come forward, and did they provide their name/contact info" within hours or minutes of reading or being told about the FB post.  People on this site having been firing off some not so nice comments about "supposed victim A" and "victim C"..but if Victim C has complied with the ECC process and did so non-anonymously TO THE INVESTIGATOR, I think all should shut their pie-holes on Victim C and wait for her veracity to be evaluated by the investigator given she came forward in the forum and manner the church asked her to.

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iamnotafraid
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« Reply #279 on: March 16, 2018, 04:25:02 pm »


If there is nothing to hide, why will ECC not agree to transparent results of an independent investigation? It is a curiosity.

I think it's become clear that they have no idea what this actually means. Somehow an investigation by their lawyer = fair and balanced. And they act like this is some major concession, like they are somehow doing Suzanne a favor. After seeing their arrogant, entitled, and self-righteous troll campaign in action, I completely understand why Suzanne has cut off all communication with them.

Maybe Suzanne cut ties with Evergreen because she has some of her own sin issues she's hiding behind.  I smell a rat, just saying.  You can search by peoples names for their own criminal records.  No one thought to do that?
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